Dialer Questions

[flux]

I don't mean to open a can of worms here, but I'm a bit curious about dialers. Are they viewed as being an ethical or unethical method of income? Are they suitable for putting on a TGP site, or would I be wasting my time in doing so? If anyone could lend an honest opinion about the subject ( without trying to sell me on his or her dialer, of course http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif ), I would certainly appreciate it. Your feedback on this bbs has been invaluable so far! Thanks, everyone!

[69er]

No, dialers suck dick mate, stay clear of them.

I fancy Margaret Thatcher, phhwwwooooaaaarrrr.



[Note: This message has been edited by richard]

[richard]

The main moral point is how much they cost the end user, and the fact that even the cheapest dialers about are more expensive than using a credit card.

Some dialers charge $7/min. If the surfer stays on for 10 mins, thats a $70 buck bill they have, whereas for $35 bucks they could have a months access to the same material.

Pro dialer people will tell you that this is ok, because the surfer is warned 3 times before getting access. I'm sure a lot of them do not understand the consequences though.

It also is claimed that dialers damage the industry in general, making us all look a little more shady in the publics eyes.

There is also the issue of getting paid a relatively small % compared to the price the user is charged, say 50c on a 700c call. For those countries using a domestic premium rate, the payout is alot better. Generally, the dialer network actually takes a bigger cut than the resellers.

I personally can justify to myself the use of dialers on a site. Thats just me, and the way i see things.

Many tgps (i believe the hun included) will not use them because they are very "surfer friendly". These tgps will not take your galleries that advertise dialers.

I think, i good way of summing up the situation is this:

They are unethical because they do charge the user more than CC billing, but what the fuck, everyone is using them so why not me.

I would, out of principle, choose a dialer company that does not spam out of their ass all day long.

Hope that helps.

Rich

[wolfshade]

Well I can't speak for all dialers out there, butthe ones my affiliates advertise warns a surfer 2 times

1 on install
2 They have to agree by clicking the agree button

If after that they still call with it it's their responsibility.

And believe me it's being used a lot http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Wolfshade

[richard]

jeez i need some coffee, and some english lessons by the look of things!

sorry for the mish-mash of a reply, but you get my gist right?

[flux]

I read you loud and clear, Richard. Thanks for taking the time to give me your 2 cents. Sorry, I don't know how much in British currency that is http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif I am a product (victim) of the American educational system. Thanks again!

[basschick]

i have personally spent what people thought was a ridiculous amount of money on some things. i had the right - it was MY money and my decision.

but porn surfers do not want the responsiblity of paying later - look at chargebacks. all of mine on my paysite were from guys that said they didn't join. when i called their houses, they admitted they joined but didn't want to pay. every single one committed fraud to get out of paying. and how should they know it's fraud? their credit card agreement, that they also didn't read, tells them so.

but the law upholds that you must read your credit card agreement - even when it doesn't seem fair. it's illegal to use your credit card and then repudiate the charges if you used it and received what you were promised.

i think the dialer is the same thing. apparently being a horny surfer means you don't have to read (fuck, the dialer terms TELL you you're gonna pay and the name of the terminating country). instead you get your nut and run to the government.

when i tested the dialer, i called the operator to get the rates for the terminating country.

why shouldn't these people scan the terms before the agree?

[richard]

Hey Flux, anytime.

What do you mean you are a victim - are you not a success story, you know there are other countries bar the US... http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

just joking guys.

http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Tam]

basschick.... bravo....... you are so dead on about that. I get so sick of this "I didn't join" crap......... if the SURFERS were made to take a bit more responsibility for their own actions and not let get by with the shit they do then we wouldn't have half the problems we do and maybe they would be forced to take some responsibility for their own actions.

I mean, it's not like they can't read... I know of no man that has a dick big enough that when he gets a hardon, he goes blind...... DUMB maybe, but not blind. LOL

Bravo to you babe.

Tam

[db]

There is nothing wrong with dialers.Anyone here who runs their own paysite with CCs will agree.I made a post (my first as it happens,in November) about 'fucked off with innocent surfers'.Basschick is 100 % right with this.
Look, exactly how are we supposed to make money around here? I have paysites and its a constant battle with fuckers who 'suddenly! after 4 months membership(for example) tell their bank they have never heard of us!!!.The bank never asks our side of the story.They just refund the 'member'.I hate it when this happens,and it happens every fucking day.
I mean what IS it with our business?.Cos we are in the porn game its just fine + Ok that sufers scam us or what?
And, thats what they are doing.No one gives a fuck about how much we spend on design,promotion,content,staff,bandwith etc,etc.
THIS IS WHY I LOVE DIALERS.We operate in Europe via domestic premuim rate numbers.
Not long distance(he he) international calls.
This in turn means that if the dialer user dont pay,he gets his phone cut off.Its as simple as fucking that.Surprise,Surprise everyone pays!! They cannot call Visa/Mastercard and deny the charge.Its on their regular phone bill, along with calls to Aunt
Tightass and they HAVE TO PAY.
For the moment we have the upper hand here,for once.
We pay a lot to provide top content for the surfer and with the dialer we get paid and he
wanks.Everyones happy.On a credit card site believe me, it aint so hunky D,at least from our side.
Its a pain the ass and the problem is this, and it will get worse.The sufers are clued up now.They know how it works.All they have to do is cry to their bank/CC company,deny the charge and bingo! Free Access to paysites,forever!And there is not a fucking thing you can do about it.The ´client´ is right
and we are fucking wrong.End of story.
Long live the dialer and the dialer will live.
All this crap about dialers being closed down is just that.CRAP!!.Sure there were (are) cowboys,they will go,but the concept of the dialer is here forever.So Mr Porn Surfer.If you want it,fucking pay for it just like everything else in the life, but by the minute,on your phone bill.!!!!!!!!.Wank and pay! Dont forget now.Wank and pay or the horrible telephone company will cut you off.
(te he he he he!!!!!!!!)

[db]

There is nothing wrong with dialers.Anyone here who runs their own paysite with CCs will agree.I made a post (my first as it happens,in November) about 'fucked off with innocent surfers'.Basschick is 100 % right with this.
Look, exactly how are we supposed to make money around here? I have paysites and its a constant battle with fuckers who 'suddenly! after 4 months membership(for example) tell their bank they have never heard of us!!!.The bank never asks our side of the story.They just refund the 'member'.I hate it when this happens,and it happens every fucking day.
I mean what IS it with our business?.Cos we are in the porn game its just fine + Ok that sufers scam us or what?
And, thats what they are doing.No one gives a fuck about how much we spend on design,promotion,content,staff,bandwith etc,etc.
THIS IS WHY I LOVE DIALERS.We operate in Europe via domestic premuim rate numbers.
Not long distance(he he) international calls.
This in turn means that if the dialer user dont pay,he gets his phone cut off.Its as simple as fucking that.Surprise,Surprise everyone pays!! They cannot call Visa/Mastercard and deny the charge.Its on their regular phone bill, along with calls to Aunt
Tightass and they HAVE TO PAY.
For the moment we have the upper hand here,for once.
We pay a lot to provide top content for the surfer and with the dialer we get paid and he
wanks.Everyones happy.On a credit card site believe me, it aint so hunky D,at least from our side.
Its a pain the ass and the problem is this, and it will get worse.The sufers are clued up now.They know how it works.All they have to do is cry to their bank/CC company,deny the charge and bingo! Free Access to paysites,forever!And there is not a fucking thing you can do about it.The ´client´ is right
and we are fucking wrong.End of story.
Long live the dialer and the dialer will live.
All this crap about dialers being closed down is just that.CRAP!!.Sure there were (are) cowboys,they will go,but the concept of the dialer is here forever.So Mr Porn Surfer.If you want it,fucking pay for it just like everything else in the life, but by the minute,on your phone bill.!!!!!!!!.Wank and pay! Dont forget now.Wank and pay or the nasty telephone company will cut you off.
(te he he he he!!!!!!!!)

[db]

Sorry all,
Looks like my long reply has been posed twice!
Think I pressed the wrong button or the right button twice!!!! Shit its a quite a long piece
in one post.2 = Embarassing!!!!
Think I will go and use my own dialer,wank and
complain to my telephone company.

[richard]

Basschick, Tam, db,

Regardless of the credit card chargeback situation, paying $70 for 10 minutes is too much money.

[Tam]

richard.... and this is our fault how? I mean they are warned and then warned again.... if they can't read and they are adults then this seems like a personal problem to me. And since when did you get so anti-dialer? http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

I go to the store and like a fool I pay $100 for a shirt... this is not the store's fault, this is my own........

If that guys hardon costs him $500, this is not our fault....... I used to try and think of the surfers and their feelings...... but you know where this got me? Working my ass off for a year for a few bucks here and there........ but then I realized they could give a shit less about me and my bills, so why should I give a shit less about what they do in the heat of their own passion? LMAO

Sorry, I know I sound cold hearted, I am just so sick of thinking about everyone else when they could give a damn whether I get my bills paid or not as long as they get free sex pics........ http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif We look out for our own and let them spend their money the way they see fit...... it's theirs, right?

Tam

[richard]

http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif Tam, i did not say that i am morally against dialers. I know what you mean about the cold hearted thing, i feel the same way really.

I just want dialer providers to admit that they rip off surfers.

It is not like a designer shirt, they could get exactly the same content by paying $30 credit card, and have access (unlimited) for a month, or pay for 10 minutes by phone bill for $70.

It is ripping the surfer off.

Whether or not you can come to terms with its morality is a matter for each individual.

Does anyone deny that dialers rip off the surfers?

[Tam]

Richard... nope I don't deny they are a rip off, but I don't really care at this point either....... I have come to terms with the fact they are a rip off, same as those 900 calls are, the psychic numbers are.... but someone is going to make this money and it may as damn well be me........ LOL

[candidpublishinginc]

"We operate in Europe via domestic premuim rate numbers.
Not long distance(he he) international calls.
This in turn means that if the dialer user dont pay,he gets his phone cut off.Its as simple as fucking that.Surprise,Surprise everyone pays!! "

I was under the impression that if a surfer dials into a internation long distance number and doesn't pay he also gets his phone shut off.

So the domestic numbers in Europe require the surfer to pay too? The premium 900 numbers in the U.S. allow the surfer to charge it all back. Wish it was like that here too with domestic numbers. http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/frown.gif

[basschick]

richard, believe it or not, i thought long and hard about what you are saying, but i still don't totally agree.

i wish i could take a few less cents a minute and have the surfer charged $3.99 or less a minute. i would be happiest with that.

however i do not think we are ripping anyone off. there is a difference between ripping someone off and charging a high price.

they are clearly told that they will pay for a premium call and to what country (in the dialer i use, it actually suggests you will pay about $6.99 a minute) and they get what they wanted.

is there a difference between stealing from someone and charging them a high price? i would think so - what do you think?

[richard]

Yep Candid.

If you used the "someone else used my phone" defence over here, the judge would laugh at you and tell you to make sure your phone was more secure http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif. Same if it was your kids.

Tam, i agree, i can find all the sporting results i want live over the net, yet people still pay premium lines for sports results. Tarot is the biggest bullshit going, and they do it.

Basschick, the difference is when they give their consent to have their money taken from them.

I am not anti-dialer though http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

[snow]

DB BRAVO

STANDING UP AND CLAPPING FOR YOU.... THESE SURFERS FUCK OVER paysite owners everyday with there bullshit excuses........

Its a big game.... Sex sells at any price...

[wolfshade]

Richard! re-read my previous post in this thread!

The sufer gets warned about it 2 times at least and the exact amount he has to pay per minute is shown we don't hide it.

Thus I conclude that they dial in with full knowledge so they obviously agree.

In case they just clicked ok, without reading sorry but you can't blame us webmasters for stupidity.

Wolfshade

[richard]

Wolfshade:

Do you think that $70 bucks for 10 minutes of porn is a rip off?

Do you think that $30 for paysite membership is a rip off?

Ultimately, do you think that dialers rip off the surfer?

Rich.

[cindi]

i agree with db http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

not only though with credit cards the surfers try to rip us off, we also have the creditcard companys puting whats called a "score" on our account! i learn't this from jeff at ccbill. this is how it works..
If ccbill thinks that you are a risk as a website, they will lower your score (score starts at 300) that means they make it harder for surfers to get approved when submitting their card details. for example if a surfer has a hotmail address and the website oeprator has a low score, then the surfer is not able to be approved even if their card is ok!!! FUCK the credit card people. dialers kick ass!!!!
and make more $$$$$

[Crunch]

Rich, surfers are ripping off paysites everyday. I've had members chargeback after 5+ months. Fuck that, at least dialers tell them what they will be charged. But when these surfers chargeback their porn memberships they don't need to tell us they are ripping us off. I haven't promoted a dialer in a long time but I just signed up for 1 today. I have no problem letting surfers charge their phone bill for what they should have paid on their CC bill, maybe even more http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif