KimmyKim

[IntheBlue]

Quick question...in the past, I have had a refund or two on my paysite and I understand ccbill's policy of making the customer happy. One guy refunded 6 days after the billing cycle.

However, I have a six month signup that is worth $90. If he cancels 2 months from now, will he get the full amount refunded or do you prorate it?

BTW, even though ccbill says that they will contact me before refunding, they haven't.

[copland]

I've had some returns from cheque sign ups this month too. I thought that meant they had come back to sign up for more!

How come we don't get told *why* they're demanding their money back, and why are they getting there money back anyway?

They haven't been ripped off (not by me), and even shops that offer no quibble money back guarantees don't do it for videos, cd's and games.

[*Kimmykim*]

Our csr's are trained to do as much as they can to save existing revenue (money that's already in the system), including hinting to the surfer that he will be blacklisted from using his cc or check again on the internet if he gets a refund for a frivolous reason.

HOWEVER, the bottom line is this -- if a surfer wants a refund or a chargeback he CAN get one. His bank or cc issuer will give it to him currently if he bitches long enough and loud enough.

There are some things happening in the future with Visa that will greatly limit what we call 'friendly fraud' so expect some changes between now and the summer.

Refunds aren't prorated, they are for the amount charged, that's the way that the banking system says it's got to be. Of course chargebacks are as well, and believe me, when you've got a chargeback on your hands -- and you know he's a chargeback or a bank involved refund when you get them -- it's best to just deal with it and save yourself the $ in admin fees charged by the banks. You can't really fight a cb currently since there is no cvv2 required and the cards aren't swiped.

WE could go to cvv2 requirement but then the site owners would scream bloody murder, so until Visa/MC makes it mandatory we offer it as an option to site owners -- they can make it mandatory for their site if they choose to.

[IntheBlue]

I think I am going to get rid of the 6 month membership then, hedge the risk of a large refund.

[IntheBlue]

KK, can you explain what the ccv2 is, how it works, and how to implement it? I looked on the website and didn't find it. I am assuming 'credit card validation'

[copland]

It must be different in america.

I made a £1,000 chargeback against mesh computers. When I phoned the cc company, they didn't know what I was talking about when I mentioned making a chargeback. They put me through to the fraud department, and after shitloads of photcopying documents and what not, I got the chargeback.

I got a letter a few days ago though. They said if mesh appeals in 45 days, I have to pay, and that's that!

[*Kimmykim*]

The more the dollar amount, the more chance of a chargeback, yes. And any of you running webmaster programs should definitely NOT pay your webmasters more for longer memberships since they are the biggest source of fraud as well.

cvv2 is similar to a pincode of sorts, its a number on the back of the card, three digits, that is printed on the white strip. It's meant to guarantee that the person using the card actually has the card in their possession.

When cvv2 is mandatory we will then be able to fight chargebacks on the basis of having a valid cvv2 entry, meaning that the card was present at the time of purchase, not those so called cases where 'my kid had my number... someone in a store I was in must have grabbed the number, etc"

[Dawgy]

kimmykim is hot :D

[Rockys Porn]

kimmykim is just looking for new tenants for her couch

since she evicted Gary, Amp and I

and i still swear that it was Amp that spilled the spot remover on your nice black leather sofa
:(

[*Kimmykim*]

Originally posted by Rockys Porn:
<STRONG>kimmykim is just looking for new tenants for her couch

since she evicted Gary, Amp and I

and i still swear that it was Amp that spilled the spot remover on your nice black leather sofa
:(</STRONG>

HAhahahaha, that was my neighbors sofa, can you blame him for wanting you guys out? ;)

That Gary is such a trickster, I can't believe you thought it was really my house...

[Rockys Porn]

certainly explains why i never saw you
;)

well if you still need that couch space occupied, all you gotta do is holler

i'm sure i'll hear you from the cardboard box that i now reside in near the side of your house

hehehe

[candidpublishinginc]

Originally posted by *Kimmykim*:
<STRONG>
When cvv2 is mandatory we will then be able to fight chargebacks on the basis of having a valid cvv2 entry, meaning that the card was present at the time of purchase, not those so called cases where 'my kid had my number... someone in a store I was in must have grabbed the number, etc"</STRONG>

Kimmykim,

What exactly are the disadvantages to cvv2 currently? If I'm not mistaken, cvv2 isn't supported by some international visa/mastercard cards, or am I thinking of zip code?

Why wouldn't every paysite owner NOT want cvv2 if it means less chargebacks and more accurate scrubbing?

[copland]

Originally posted by Dawgy:
<STRONG>kimmykim is hot :D</STRONG>

How do you know what she looks like?

[Torben]

Some CC processors including ibill use the cvv2 so I do not see why CC Bill can't.

[*Kimmykim*]

torben -- anyone can use cvv2.

HOWEVER, the majority of site owners don't want to use it since they feel it lowers their conversion rate. Which it may, but not by much, that I do know. The main reason that people fail on cvv2 is that they either don't understand what is being asked for (and there is even a picture on our standard join page) or they don't have the card in front of them at the moment. When you use a mandatory cvv2 check, it MUST match or the card is a fail. So even if every other indicator says the person is who they are and has the money to use the card, there would be no sale.

There are some small banks that require cvv2 now -- they reject any attempts that don't have it. When either Visa/MC or one of the large banks, ie Bank of America, CitiBank, Chase Manhattan, start requiring it, then it will become a standard.

There are several changes coming down the pipeline on the credit card front, involving more than just cvv2. As these changes are brought into regulation by Visa, MC (and potentially even Amex coming back into adult), we (and other processors I'm sure) will keep everyone up to speed on the things that are being implemented.

[shunga]

Originally posted by *Kimmykim*:
<STRONG>including hinting to the surfer that he will be blacklisted from using his cc or check again on the internet if he gets a refund for a frivolous reason.</STRONG>

I accept refunds are necessary to reduce chargebacks, but I'd be happier if I knew the percentage of refunds leading to blacklisting was high. ;)

[Dawgy]

Originally posted by copland:
<STRONG>How do you know what she looks like?</STRONG>

a dawgy knows. :)

i met kimmy in vegas. twice.

[*Kimmykim*]

Originally posted by shunga:
<STRONG>

I accept refunds are necessary to reduce chargebacks, but I'd be happier if I knew the percentage of refunds leading to blacklisting was high. ;)</STRONG>

For us, it is. We don't use negative db as our base either, we track actual customers. Too many refunds or any chargebacks without requesting a refund and you don't get any more chances on our system.

[$tandaman]

KK but ccv2 would not protect from computer fraud would it? if someone steals a cc database it would have the ccv2 in it as well.
What do you think?
Although it probably would stop a lot of ccslip/receipt fraud.

[basschick]

$tandaman, i used to have a small shemale paysite. i emailed or called every chargeback and refund on the phone that claimed their card was misused.

100% of the people that claimed their card was stolen or misused admitted to me that they HAD used their card to access the site and didn't want to pay, or else their wife had said "hey, honey, what's this charge" and they lied to keep out of trouble.

not ONE of these geniuses realized they were committing credit card fraud.

true, i was a SMALL paysite, but it makes ya think.

[shane]

this is a good page
https://www.globill.com/dispute_policy.htm