Dialers SUCK!!! (What a ripoff)

[sonicpuke]

These dialers are ruining porn just so a few of you can make a quick buck.

I posted something along these lines before but it was buried in another post and I'm not sure you all got my oppinion.

I have a few points to make on why these dialers are illegal/immoral.
Claims people make that the price is labeled right on the dialer is bullshit.
First off it's normally buried in the fineprint. (Just because there is some fineprint saying that you can be screwed 6 ways till tuesday does not make it legal)

Second 90% of you guys are using blind movie thumbs to download these dialers. (Oh yeah this isn't deceiving anyone at all right?)
Basically what you are saying is that if they are stupid enough to believe what you are telling them they deserve to get ripped off. This is bullshit. You are lying to the surfers and ripping them off. Just because there is some fineprint saying the price doesn't change the fact that you represent these dialers as movies that just need to be downloaded. Not only that but once you make the mistake of running these dialers they infuse themselves into your opperating system so that hopefully the can "accidentally" make ALL thier internet connections at this outragous price. What a scam. These people are being tricked the whole way through. (From the time they see your fake thumbs to the time they actually use it they are being tricked AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. How can you say they should know better. Everything about this is setup to mislead. It's not the same a someone using thier finger to dial a chat line. Not at all. They are being tricked into it.)

Third. The price of this is incredible. For the price of 1/2 hour of dialer time a surfer could get almost a YEAR from a legit paysite. What a ripoff. You mislead them with your thumbs then justify the rip.

Fourth. The FTC is already shutting these things down. If you are suddenly finding that american minutes no longer track then you can be 100% sure the YOU were involved with an ILLEGAL SCAM. Yes YOU were setting these surfers up to get ripped off. Dialing england and saying that they are in fact calling madagascar is outright STEALING and as the supplier YOU are contributing and collecting from this outright thievery. Don't say you didn't know. You should have. You ignore the obvious so you can make money. Wake up and face reality. These dialers are a flat out rippoff.

Fifth. As if all this wasn't bad enough.
While those guys are SAYING that calls are going to madagascar and STEALING through fraud and getting $150/ half hour. YOU will get $10/half hour. IE YOU are getting scammed too. Your name and our potential CUSTOMERS are being taught a lesson that internet porn is a big ass scam.

Sales are going down pretty steadily since these dialers came. If you think there is no corelation then you are blind baby, blind to the facts. Oh you are.

sonic

[Doctor Dre]

yeah I think its true . good post sonicpuke

[sairanx]

I think you're right... i'm going to drop my dailers i think

[cashrat]

Dialers are good billing system if there only work with credit cards bitching all the time online porn has to find system that works.As for people not knowing what there sign up for thats bullshit these cheap bastards just don't want to pay for quality porn with the charge backs on credit cards from people who want to enjoy our hard work for free .Look when you download these shitty dialers that don't work you are told what the charge is going to be if you are to horney to read it thats your F-up what the hell do people want free pussy! Originally posted by sonicpuke:
These dialers are ruining porn just so a few of you can make a quick buck.

I posted something along these lines before but it was buried in another post and I'm not sure you all got my oppinion.

I have a few points to make on why these dialers are illegal/immoral.
Claims people make that the price is labeled right on the dialer is bullshit.
First off it's normally buried in the fineprint. (Just because there is some fineprint saying that you can be screwed 6 ways till tuesday does not make it legal)

Second 90% of you guys are using blind movie thumbs to download these dialers. (Oh yeah this isn't deceiving anyone at all right?)
Basically what you are saying is that if they are stupid enough to believe what you are telling them they deserve to get ripped off. This is bullshit. You are lying to the surfers and ripping them off. Just because there is some fineprint saying the price doesn't change the fact that you represent these dialers as movies that just need to be downloaded. Not only that but once you make the mistake of running these dialers they infuse themselves into your opperating system so that hopefully the can "accidentally" make ALL thier internet connections at this outragous price. What a scam. These people are being tricked the whole way through. (From the time they see your fake thumbs to the time they actually use it they are being tricked AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. How can you say they should know better. Everything about this is setup to mislead. It's not the same a someone using thier finger to dial a chat line. Not at all. They are being tricked into it.)

Third. The price of this is incredible. For the price of 1/2 hour of dialer time a surfer could get almost a YEAR from a legit paysite. What a ripoff. You mislead them with your thumbs then justify the rip.

Fourth. The FTC is already shutting these things down. If you are suddenly finding that american minutes no longer track then you can be 100% sure the YOU were involved with an ILLEGAL SCAM. Yes YOU were setting these surfers up to get ripped off. Dialing england and saying that they are in fact calling madagascar is outright STEALING and as the supplier YOU are contributing and collecting from this outright thievery. Don't say you didn't know. You should have. You ignore the obvious so you can make money. Wake up and face reality. These dialers are a flat out rippoff.

Fifth. As if all this wasn't bad enough.
While those guys are SAYING that calls are going to madagascar and STEALING through fraud and getting $150/ half hour. YOU will get $10/half hour. IE YOU are getting scammed too. Your name and our potential CUSTOMERS are being taught a lesson that internet porn is a big ass scam.

Sales are going down pretty steadily since these dialers came. If you think there is no corelation then you are blind baby, blind to the facts. Oh you are.

sonic

[sonicpuke]

Yup. Your blinded by bullshit.

If you click a blind thumblink I guess you should expect a $150 bill on your phone eh? That's the bullshit.

It's the worst possible billing system. It allows minors to illegally access porn without their knowledge or even if a friend stops by and uses your computer. (I guess you should know better than this too?) Don't let ANYONE use your computer or you will not be able to feed your kids this month?

Get a clue. The FTC is shutting this stuff down because it is an outright scam. I guess you know a lot more about it than they do though eh?

Why would you say that calling madagascar is the best way to get billed for porn? because you are getting your microscopic cut. (Or maybe you are one of the scammers running a dailer?)

Also there is no need to re-post my entire message. I think it's available already. No need to waste tim's bandwidth.

sonic

[Zyonic]

Dialers are a good billing solution, but the current dialer programs are runned by greedy people.. :/

And I disagree completly with "If you click a blind thumblink I guess you should expect a $150 bill on your phone eh? That's the bullshit."

They do get warnings that clearly states that the service is not free.


The thing that makes me mad is that the people behind the dialers make tons of money, while webmasters get a little percentage.. :/

If the webmasters that promote dialers on their sites got a higher percenatage of the money, I would understand that they used it..

But giving youself a bad reputation so some lazy guy can make 5-15 times more money than you do..

[Luke]

Good post sonic, I am going to stop using the dialer, and also forefeit the lease on my Beemer and return it. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[sonicpuke]

Yup kucey

I guess you can't make a living without ripping people off. (It's bullshit. My bills get paid and I don't use dialers at all)

Maybe I should rob a bank or something?
Should I sell childporn and justify it with my beemer? Right is right. Wrong is wrong. You drive a beemer while some of your surfers can't pay rent due to this ripoff. I guess that's fair since there was a notice somewhere along the way. (Obviously after you tricked them with a blind thumb.)

Just cause you have a beemer doesn't make it right.

Soon they will be illegal in america so pay that sucker off quick.

Pretty easy to blame the surfer for his own stupidity after you have tricked him with a blind thumb into thinking he's going to get a movie.

Dialers are on thier way out. Read the writing on the wall.

sonic

[richard]

I respect your views Sonic.

But have my own opinions.

Just because there is some fineprint saying that you can be screwed 6 ways till tuesday does not make it legal

Urm, if it says "you must read and agree to these terms" and you check a button that says you have done so, regardless of how much writing there is, you are legally bounded. Ok, if it was in a foreign language there us a case for the surfer, i'll concede that.

Why do you not extend your views to other audiotext related services:

1) Psychic Readings / Tarot Lines etc. WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif You have a x% chance of meeting a tall dark stranger, x% chance of having a good day, etc etc, so x% of people believe its true. Bull.

2) Sports Results. They can be obtained over the net for free, does that make these premium lines a bad thing?

3) Sex lines / Phone sex. This is more relevent. I'll confess i have never called a phone sex line myself, but why do people call them? because they get off on it i assume http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif On a per minute basis, i am sure a local whore would talk dirty to you cheaper. Does this make them a bad thing? no.

Just because people can get the same product for a different price, does not mean to say that a product that is move expensive is a bad thing. If i can sell a can of beans to a stupid guy for $100, then shame on him.

Not only that but once you make the mistake of running these dialers they infuse themselves into your opperating system so that hopefully the can "accidentally" make ALL thier internet connections at this outragous price

The technical knowledge of the computer user is not my problem as a webmaster offering them the dialer. Their normal connection will be the _default_ connection (in IE for eg) I don't know of a dialer that sets the default connection to the premium number do you?

The price of this is incredible. For the price of 1/2 hour of dialer time a surfer could get almost a YEAR from a legit paysite. What a ripoff. You mislead them with your thumbs then justify the rip.


Shame on the surfer. It really does go back to what Tam was saying in the other post - it is the parents responsibility to protect their children from porn. It is the surfers responsibility to read the terms, not mine, it is their responsibility to know what a good deal is and what is not, not mine.

Ok, "Rip Off" does not in anyway imply illegal. It means you have been "taken for a ride" and paid more than you could (not should) have done. Therefore in my opinion, dialers are a rip off, but it is not my responsibility to tell the surfer that.

Do you ever see McDonalds and Burger King telling their customers that the other has cheaper burgers? that the other has better "beef" ? NO! Do you see the electronics shop telling the bloke with the TV at the checkout that he could get $100 off if he got the same thing down the road? NO!

Do you see a dialer telling the surfer that CC membership is cheaper?


The FTC is already shutting these things down. If you are suddenly finding that american minutes no longer track then you can be 100% sure the YOU were involved with an ILLEGAL SCAM. Yes YOU were setting these surfers up to get ripped off. Dialing england and saying that they are in fact calling madagascar is outright STEALING and as the supplier YOU are contributing and collecting from this outright thievery

Being involved in a scam, and knowingly being involved in a scam are two entirely different circumstances. So people do not worry, Sonic is no lawyer, and you will face no charges (i am no lawyer, but i am using my common sense). Sonic, explain to me what happened in the Verity case, exactly, and why it affected GIB, exactly. Can you?

The FTC have challenged Verity to prove that in each case, the call was authorised by the phone bill payer. Pure bull again. Go to the audiotext industry, an established industry. If a child calls a sex line on their parents phone, even though they have been told that the bill payer must authorise the call, what should happen? Again goes back to Tam's points, its the parents responsibility to look after their children. If the child nicked $100 out of his mum's purse, and bought $100 of sweets (fat bastard http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif), and eats them all (ie consumes the good) the parent cannot demand the money back from the sweet shop owner!


Sales are going down pretty steadily since these dialers came. If you think there is no corelation then you are blind baby, blind to the facts. Oh you are.

I read a post somewhere (netpond / here / somewhere else) about Japanese traffic, it converts like crazy, because the surfers were raped with dialers, it made them realise how cheap a CC membership is, they stop using the dialers, and buy memberships.

On this point i feel you are totally wrong. If anything, dialers BENEFIT the porn game, by raising consumer awareness of how cheap the CC memeberships are.


It's the worst possible billing system. It allows minors to illegally access porn without their knowledge or even if a friend stops by and uses your computer. (I guess you should know better than this too?) Don't let ANYONE use your computer or you will not be able to feed your kids this month?



And the child who "borrows" the credit card is a similar situation. They both will get caught because the parent pays the bill, and the both allow a minor to view porn. I am not sure about the states, so someone fill me in or correct me, but i would imagine to have a phone contract, ie be the bill payer, you have to be of "legal age" ie an adult. The fact that the child is stealing from the parents via the phone bill, or via a credit card is not important, both allow minors to get online. Fuck, back when i was a minor, dialers had just started to come out, HELL YEA, I READ THE TERMS, shat myself because if i used it i would get caught by my parents, deleted the file and went about my busienss. Ok, its easier to get a dialer, than to get a credit card, but the principle and the opportunity to exploit are still there in both.


Why would you say that calling madagascar is the best way to get billed for porn? because you are getting your microscopic cut. (Or maybe you are one of the scammers running a dailer?)

I totally agree, i talked to GIB a while ago about setting up using a dialer as a payment solution, the rate i got as a "corperate" customer were so much higher than i was offered for a porno customer. The billing solution is only made viable if the increased purchases resulting from its convenience can create enough extra profit to make up the cut that the provider takes. In porn, it is.

You drive a beemer while some of your surfers can't pay rent due to this ripoff

Life is a bitch. You eat nice food, and people stave in Africa. You are a beautiful person, i have a face like a horse's ass. Life is not fair, there are always winners and losers. NB/ If a surfer cannot buy food, or pay for their rent, what the fuck are they doing with a computer, internet access, and time to surf and not work?


I respect your opions Sonic, and have tried to convince you and other readers why dialers whilst not necessarily being "good", the are equally not necessarily "bad"

Richard.


~~~~~~~~~~
jeez, thats a big up post, i only had 2 pints tonight, and i get all serious and deep.

I await your reply Sonic.

[xApster]

Good post Richard.

[Duke]

man looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooong one http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif
and it was good I have to say
( rich, one day u will receive the "longest post" award http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif )

[Due]

rich>
yeah damn good post. I tottaly agree http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif
Dialers are here to stay. Like they have been the past few years

i have a face like a horse's ass. Life is not fair

DAMN I did not know that. Does that have something to do with your drinking problem? http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Tam]

Richard..... BRAVO........ you ahve made so many points there, you said so much that I have been trying to say for a couple of months now. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif
It is not MY job to watch out for kids whose parents do NOT do this themselves...... if those kids are raised right then they won't be hunting for the shit to begin with and they DAMN sure are not going to steal from their parents, if for no other reason than respect for those people who gave them life. LMAO

I used to be so damn worried about what others thought and if they didn't want to look out for their kids, then I would..... but it's getting crazy, these parents park their kids behind closed doors in their rooms with a computer attached to the damn internet and so long as they stay the hell out of their hair, that is alright by them.

OH BUT WAIT!!!!!!! I have holding in my hand, a bill for WHAT?!?!?!?!?!? $300??????? And how did this shit happen?????

This parent didn't seem to give a damn what his kid was doing in that dark room all by himself for hours on end UNTIL he gets a bill for $300 or a charge for $40 on his stolen credit card.... Oh but when this happens???? Oh porn is bad, porn is a ripoff, porn needs to be shut down!!

Give me a break please??? I am not and have never even wanted to rip anyone off... HOWEVER, it is NOT MY fault or the fault of any other porn webmaster for that matter, that HIS child was left alone long enough to make such happen to his credit card or phone bill.

I have kids of my own to feed and care for.... 4 of them in case anyone missed that part...... and I am sorry if they are being fed and clothed because some poor parent wasn't monitoring his OWN child and now has to pay an ungodly amount of money to keep his phone or credit card. OR worse yet, because HE as an ADULT, was so damn horny that the thought of that bill coming due at the first of the next month was not his concern right at that minute.

Sorry I went off like this, but I get a bit unnerved by all these self rightious parents screaming fraud at ME because HE WAS NOT WATCHING HIS CHILD.... that pisses me off. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

Tam

[sonicpuke]

Well thanks richard. I starting to be afraid the best anyone could come up with is "I have a beemer so that makes it ok"
-------
Urm, if it says "you must read and agree to these terms" and you check a button that says you
have done so, regardless of how much writing there is, you are legally bounded. Ok, if it was in a
foreign language there us a case for the surfer, i'll concede that.
-------
Well you might be legally bounded. But the FTC may have another view of this.
For one thing using a blind thumb might be considered false advertising. It implies you will get a movie while what you really get is a big fat phone bill.

-------
Why do you not extend your views to other audiotext related services:
-------
Well it's not really a concern of mine since I don't provide or promote these services.
In my book they are a rippoff too though for the reasons you mentioned.
These services also mention thier high rates upfront before you ever dial.
The dialers on the other hand will disconnect your service and reconnect you without you ever dialing anything.

------
Just because people can get the same product for a different price, does not mean to say that a
product that is move expensive is a bad thing. If i can sell a can of beans to a stupid guy for
$100, then shame on him.
------
Well you have a point here. But many times the surfer doesn't realize that he's paying $100 for a can of beans.
The dialers should be much more forthcoming and so should the webmasters that promote them.
What I see out here is people stretching this concept as far as it can possibly go.
(IE ANYTHING GOES as long as you don't use the word free? Well it's far from free and it doesn't lead to a movie either. It leads to an exe file.

------
The technical knowledge of the computer user is not my problem as a webmaster offering them
the dialer. Their normal connection will be the _default_ connection (in IE for eg) I don't know of a
dialer that sets the default connection to the premium number do you?
------
Well I don't use dialers anymore so i wouldn't know. I think however that you might be correct about this.
However they still infuse themselves into your system as I said to increase the chances a surfer might "accidentally" get fucked. (Premium number? hehe nice way to put an assfucking with no vaseline)

------
Shame on the surfer. It really does go back to what Tam was saying in the other post - it is the
parents responsibility to protect their children from porn. It is the surfers responsibility to read the
terms, not mine, it is their responsibility to know what a good deal is and what is not, not mine.
------

Yeah that's one way to look at it. Very shortsited though. There are legit ways to make money from porn and like the hun I am considering informing as many surfers as I can so they don't get screwed. Parents are responsible for protecting thier kids from this. But what if they are at a friends house. At school? An internet cafe? etc etc. People claim to care about childporn but when the chance comes to reduce how much porn kids get noone cares? A credit card is one of the few ways to reduce the number of children viewing the hardcore stuff the paysites provide.

------
Ok, "Rip Off" does not in anyway imply illegal. It means you have been "taken for a ride" and paid
more than you could (not should) have done. Therefore in my opinion, dialers are a rip off, but it is
not my responsibility to tell the surfer that.
------
Well that's what they used to say about "free" memberships. They are almost all gone now though.
The credit card companies stepped in to stop this. Expect the same soon from the phone companies if nothing the FTC does sticks. It may in fact be illegal too. (though I'm not a lawyer and don't know. But I do know it SHOULD be illegal.)

--
Do you see a dialer telling the surfer that CC membership is cheaper?
--
No I don't expect them too either. Charging a reasonable price would be better. A credit card paysite could put smallprint saying that after one month you will be billed $2000 for your continueing membership. Why don't they? Same as with the credit card companies. The customer calls in and gets a chargeback. Don't be suprised if the phone companies do the same. Free memberships aren't illegal either but they are now all but gone. (Yes I know a few still have them but the majority had to stop)

------
Being involved in a scam, and knowingly being involved in a scam are two entirely different
circumstances. So people do not worry, Sonic is no lawyer, and you will face no charges (i am no
lawyer, but i am using my common sense). Sonic, explain to me what happened in the Verity case,
exactly, and why it affected GIB, exactly. Can you?
------
I never said anyone would face charges. I doubt its possible to trace back where it was downloaded from in the first place.
But just know that it WAS an illegal scam and you WERE involved if you suddenly say american minutes stop tracking.
No I can't explain exactly what happened. But I know all along that this was wrong if not illegal and was expecting the government to step in at some point to protect citizens. Expect more not less. They will find SOME reason to get rid of these. My worry is that it will affect other porn sites as well. A few years ago they tried to make ALL porn sites have credit cards for access. I sure hope this SCAM (Yes it's a scam not a service.) doesn't affect us all. I make my living at this stuff.


------
The FTC have challenged Verity to prove that in each case, the call was authorised by the phone
bill payer. Pure bull again. Go to the audiotext industry, an established industry. If a child calls a
sex line on their parents phone, even though they have been told that the bill payer must
authorise the call, what should happen? Again goes back to Tam's points, its the parents
responsibility to look after their children. If the child nicked $100 out of his mum's purse, and
bought $100 of sweets (fat bastard ), and eats them all (ie consumes the good) the parent
cannot demand the money back from the sweet shop owner!
------
Well if the kid steals $100 from his mum's purse there isn't much to be done.
however if a kid calls a phone sex line I think you'll find that they parent wont have to pay that bill.
(When I was a kid I signed up for 12 CD's for 1 cent. I didn't have to but anymore CD's or pay shit. I was a minor. Even a legally binding contract does NOT apply to a minor. These dialers do nothing to prevent this.)


------
I read a post somewhere (netpond / here / somewhere else) about Japanese traffic, it converts
like crazy, because the surfers were raped with dialers, it made them realise how cheap a CC
membership is, they stop using the dialers, and buy memberships.
On this point i feel you are totally wrong. If anything, dialers BENEFIT the porn game, by raising
consumer awareness of how cheap the CC memeberships are.
------
Zero on this one. Sales have gone down. And it's not a coincedence.
If you think that ripping people off will get them to give up thier credit card number I just don't know what planet you come from. You have some points there but this one makes no sense at all. Less money in the pockets of porn surfers means less sales period. I don't see how you could say anything else.

quote:

It's the worst possible billing system. It allows minors to illegally access porn without
their knowledge or even if a friend stops by and uses your computer. (I guess you
should know better than this too?) Don't let ANYONE use your computer or you will not
be able to feed your kids this month?

richards reply
And the child who "borrows" the credit card is a similar situation. They both will get caught
because the parent pays the bill, and the both allow a minor to view porn. I am not sure about the
states, so someone fill me in or correct me, but i would imagine to have a phone contract, ie be
the bill payer, you have to be of "legal age" ie an adult. The fact that the child is stealing from the
parents via the phone bill, or via a credit card is not important, both allow minors to get online.
Fuck, back when i was a minor, dialers had just started to come out, HELL YEA, I READ THE
TERMS, shat myself because if i used it i would get caught by my parents, deleted the file and
went about my busienss. Ok, its easier to get a dialer, than to get a credit card, but the principle
and the opportunity to exploit are still there in both.

My reply
Well you missed the whole point. The point was that this is NOT the best possible billing system. it is the biggest most deceptive billing system so far. I think I replied already to the other points you made here if not let me know.

quote:
Why would you say that calling madagascar is the best way to get billed for porn?
because you are getting your microscopic cut. (Or maybe you are one of the
scammers running a dailer?)

richard reply
I totally agree, i talked to GIB a while ago about setting up using a dialer as a payment solution,
the rate i got as a "corperate" customer were so much higher than i was offered for a porno
customer. The billing solution is only made viable if the increased purchases resulting from its
convenience can create enough extra profit to make up the cut that the provider takes. In porn,
it is.

my reply
Well if you agree then I don't know what to say. If the dialers had a reasonable rate/way of charging they might be good.
I'm afriad that scam artists are going to ruin this idea before it gets a chance to be legitematly used.

quote:
You drive a beemer while some of your surfers can't pay rent due to this ripoff
richards reply
Life is a bitch. You eat nice food, and people stave in Africa. You are a beautiful person, i have a
face like a horse's ass. Life is not fair, there are always winners and losers. NB/ If a surfer cannot
buy food, or pay for their rent, what the fuck are they doing with a computer, internet access,
and time to surf and not work?
My reply
Well how far do you take this life is a bitch concept?
Life's a bitch. Children get abused. Does that mean it's ok for me to sell it online as long as I get a beemer from the deal.
(It seems like child porn is practically legal in russia now. But we ban together to stop it because it's WRONG. SO are dialers.)
Life's a bitch. Construction supplies are expensive. (But when there is a hurricane coming through town it is ILLEGAL to raise the price of plywood to cover your windows to 100 times the normal price. People might be fully willing to pay this much but it's still gouging and illegal)
Life's a bitch. Old people get ripped off. Does that mean it's ok for me to trick some old person into giving me thier life savings while making claims that I can make it into 3 times the amount. (This is illegall most times. also and I hear about it all the time. People go to jail for this even though the person GAVE the money to the person.)
Right is right and wrong is wrong. If you can't see that this is flat WRONG I don't know what to say. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

-------
I respect your opions Sonic, and have tried to convince you and other readers why dialers whilst
not necessarily being "good", the are equally not necessarily "bad"
-------
They are bad period. I see no good in them unless you are the person making the money. For everyone else involved it is nothing but bad news. And IMHO it also hurts us. (Our reputations if not our sales.)

I worry that BS like this will make congress act to restrict our bussiness. I just hope I'm wrong.
If congress doesn't act. Rest assured the phone companies will. (In the same way credit card companies stopped the free memeberships.) If I'm correct fedex still wont even deal with porn at all from that "scam". That scam was NOTHING compared to this either. Just don't say I didn't warn ya.

sonic.

PS This last line is a joke that came to mind so don't it personally richard. I have to say it just cause I think it's funny not because it's true.

You have a point. But I think your hair hides it http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif hehe

[DK?]

I've read both sides and thought long and hard about this.

Im under the impression that dialers don't raise surfer awareness.
I know if I were screwed out of 1/2 of my rent for 1/2 an hour looking at porn, I'll be damned if I get scammed on the net again, screw that!
I'd go to the local video spot and buy a video and not have to worry about getting rammed up the ass.
Anyone see a direct correlation with the large sponsors using dialers on their sign-up pages and dropping conversions?
I do.
Thats just my opinion, but Im removing the dialers from my sites.
Ive been in the game for over two and 1/2 years, and until the beginning of this week, never used a dialer.
From what I see, the money is good, but I truly cant live with myself pushing those things.

[sonicpuke]

Well tam. The children looking at the porn was only one of my points.

But if you take that attitude then why not say.

If the parents allow there child to be filmed when having sex why can't I sell it?

Because children are vulnerable and just because thier parents weren't watching them that second doesn't make it ok.

BTW I think you are going to find that every parent that even CLAIMS that it was thier child who called the dialer will get thier money back. (In america anyways.) A child is not legally able to sign or approve a legally binding contract so your warnings mean nothing in this case.

Again though the child thing is only part of my point. They could come by my site and see porn for free. Just said that because some people really do care about children other than thier own. (Or are you saying that since they have bad parents they deserve any abuse they recieve?)

sonic

[Luke]

I was joking about the Beemer payments http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

I think you guys should lets each other chose how they wish to do things, and let the FTC deem an advertising method immoral otherwise people can do whatever the fuck they want.
If you think it is wrong no need to patronize others to stop, cause they most likely won't, its up to the FTC to do that.

[richard]

We all have opinions, and lets not get personal http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

DK?/

Put it into perspective, the average hold times are around 10 minutes, = $40 (i know its an average, dont bitch at me).

If my bill came in and i knew i had paid $40 for it, an accepted it, then i would defintely look twice at a site that offered me all that for access for a month.

I agree that the current setup is not perfect at the moment. The surfer shoud know what they are being charged, if this issue is addressed, then there would be none of these issues.
===========

Due/

I'm gunna kick your ass for that one http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Take it easy guys, if you really really do care about the surfers, stop CJ and so something else http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif.

Rich.

[TwinTone]

1,000,000 HARDCORE PICS AND VIDEOS - HOT DOWNLOAD!
No membership or credit card is required. You simply need to download and run this program, which will allow you to access our archives.
Pictures range from beautiful nudes to innocent schoolgirls to hardcore sluts!
Plus: Nasty xxx-rated AVI & MPG video clips, nasty online cybersex, and more. You get instant access. Just normal int'l rates apply.


This is my add for the dialer i use. No blind links to the dialer on my site. I feel better about advertising it this way.
DOWNLOAD NOW!

[sonicpuke]

hehe The folder for this topic in flames within 3 hours. I thought people may have an oppinion about this.

Opinions are like assholes. We all have one http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Sorry if I got personal richard beyond that joke that I disclaimed I don't know where I did.

Getting personal isn't really to constructive so I try to stay away from that.

I also appologize to anyone who goes through life handicapped with a pointed head http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

sonic

[kingping]

I quit using dialers on my site after receiving several e-mails from surfers asking why my "free movie link" (which was a blind link) gave them and their friends thats tried it $50 phone bills for just a matter of minutes. This is a perfect example that shows people don't read the fine print. Back in the day if I received a $150 phone bill with my rent due I would be fucking kicked-out of my apt.

[WETDOG]

Well think of it this way, they have 900# on late night TV can you imaginge paying $2.99 per min just to listen to some fat ass cow talking dirty to you? and you dont get to see anything? the dialer is in that same area but at least you get to see somthing,I think if you sell your dialer properly you will get more hold times rather then downloads, Hell i see at least 3-4 sites exiting to there dialer that is funny, i see what sonic is saying over 50% of these TGP sites at the top have 5 or so big thumbs that go to the dialers all that will happen there is a huge bandwidth bill as maybe 10% of them will use it i bet..

lets here more on this debate:
of the "MIGHTY DIALERS"

Wet

[Crysty]

Net Nanny,Cyber Sitter,Surf Watch,Cyber Patrol
How hard is for them to forbid access to dialers web site ?
Or maybe they do, I dont know exactly
But if those protections are able to ban access to minors and their parents aren't using any of these services, then it's their fault, not mine.

I am an adult wm, I eat and pay bills from what I do. I am advertising a service who proved to be working best for me.period

Giving to minors porn without cc ? hell, there are tons of tgp's with loads of free content, they can look at pics for free.
Why do they choose to use dialers ? Because I am advertising such kinda product !
And why do I do this ? Because I wanna live !


Ok, blind thumbs to dialers. So what ? If you are a child, then your parents are not monitoring you. If you are an adult, should you be less confident when you hear the modem dialing again ?? For sure I will stop and re-read what damn small prints are saying.


Crysty

[snow]

So many parents in America jump to conclusions that this and that should be monitored BULLSHIT, Watch your fucking kids. There is no more discipline in this country,thats the problem. I have been to Rated R movies with 6 year old children next to me. These are the kids that are calling on dialers, there parents are fucken idiots. My kids dont even come near my office. I agree with you 100 percent krysty,there is no difference with a child stumbling onto a free tgp or a dialer,The problem is that the child never should have been there in the first place. My kids have aol accounts. Aol supplys settings at different age groups. My kids cannot instant message or do searches. The parent always makes the difference.

[Luke]

It is fully the parents job these days to regulate their children's usage of the internet.

[Luke]

(hit submit too early again)

However,

1) It is not just children being affected by the use of the dialer. Not just kids using it. Can't just say it is all kids downloading the dialer.

2) Many parents at this stage in technology when they were growing up didn't even have the internet and the majority don't know much about it now. At this point alot of kids know more about it then their parents do. So many parents can be clueless as to what there children can get into on it.

[snow]

No doubt KUC......

[AndyRolla]

diallers are a fuckin scam

no point arguing because everyone knows it

some of you see the money, and because it is such a faceless scam they can deal with it and take profits

others just say no, and stand by their convictions.

theres absolutely no point fighting with people like tam etc... if you argue with an idiot they will just bring you down to your level and beat you with experience.

[Tam]

Arguing with people like me? I'm sorry dear, but I don't argue with anyone....... never have on here and won't, it's not worth it. I express MY opinions on subjects but I do not argue with you about them. You have your opinions and I have mine...... it's pretty simple.

And experience? Nope, I don't have alot of that either...... I just do what I do the best that I can do it, and that's it. I try and help anyone who needs to know anything that I know. And I don't proclaim to know much of anything, but what I do know, I am not afraid to voice my opinions on.

As for dialers being a scam? If this is the way you feel, I respect that, but please don't ask me to share your views on it, I don't ask you to change your mind, so don't ask me to change mine. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif As for you choosing me to prove a point about arguing...... you will not hear me ARGUING with anyone, I just don't do it... it's not worth it.

Tam

[snow]

Andy do you agree in abortion? Or are you for it. Well this is your opinion of what you think it should be. We are all entitled to our opinions. I do have to say that majority wins. I can understand what sonic says,but money is evil kevin. Dont you think were getting fucked when we pay 50 more cents for a slice of cheese?

[Rimmer]

The big difference between 900#'s and dialers is the person has to actually write down the number then dial it. So they know exactly what they're doing even if they might not have paid enough attention to exactly how much they're charged. I would say 95+% of people are aware that 900#'s are charged at much higher rates.

While with dialers all it takes it click click click and they're suddenly being charged international phone rates without even being aware that they've disconnected from their normal ISP. Probably 80% of people I know (I'm not talking about other webmasters here) personally would be oblivous to dialers and wouldn't even realise that they were disconnected from the net and reconnected to an international call.

Personally I've tried a dialer for a couple of days before deciding it definitely wasn't for me or my sites. I know there is good money to be made with them but I'd prefer to make money in other ways.

[Doctor Dre]

Well said Tim ! Yeah ! Theres big $$$ to make by ripping off people . And there will always be cash to make this way . So I REALLY don't think its good for etich ... If I was charged 200 $ on my phone bill I would freak ! So I don't wanna do what the others can do me . Youre saying its written and all and all =p So ppl are dumb sometimes and they don't read all . (The same way when you don'T read the rules of a TGP or another thing.) they don't think they are going to pay . Thats why its a rip off .

[snow]

I guess it's a question of Humanity, or Moralism. Whoever thinks it's wrong dont use it. Pretty simple. When you turn the radio on and dont like the song, then change the fucken channel.Same idea.

[CONSOLEHELL]

No, it's not the same idea Snow, you fucking degenerate. The surfer doesn't have the option to change the channel because he isn't being told he is getting scammed. Also, how do you know it isn't a child using those dialers? I don't care how much you try to justify it with bullshit excuses like parents should watch their kids. That's fucking bullshit and you know it. Parents work and aren't around. Kids can access computers from other locations other than their homes. At least with a credit card you have some assurance the surfer is an adult. Whith this you have none. Look at yourself in the mirror and face the facts. If you use a dialer you are committing fraud and are a criminal, not to mention a low-life degenerate.

[QuietMike]

O-well, looks like I will have to learn to deal with myself being a low-life degenerate. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[unconnected]

dont' worry bud, it gets easier with time...
http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[WETDOG]

You know what is funny is all these dailers like to know how much traffic you have first of all? thats a no-no you want my anal hole size as well? fuck this pre qualify shit.. more and more i think about it the dialer is like selling a new drug that just came out
of some crack addicts drug lad on how to control people i have change my views on the dialer and will have to agree with Sonic..

so my final thought fuck the dialer...

It is the route to all evil.. money whores
is what it stands for ( it means you wouldsell you mother for a min)..

PLUS ALL THE DIALERS SHAVE::: YOU GET WHAT 35 CENT? THE REST GETS $1.00 FUCK THAT THAT IS PURE BULLSHIT. WHO IS GETTING FUCKED ? THINK ABOUT IT? =======YOU ARE========


Wetdog

[sairanx]

Using dailers is MAJOR short term thinking!
Someone who gets screwed by one of those lowlife dailer dealers probably won't use his credid card or online cheques for the nex 10 years to buy porn...

if you sell a membership to a surfer he'll probably buy an other membership within a few months.

Those dailer guys are fucking up the whole industry! Even if you don't care abouth other people you should think about the future of business, it's for your own good!

sorry for my bad english,
Jannes

[kingping]

making money is only so easy when it's a scam and thats exactly what dialers are

[chimp]

I love it. Porn webmasters arguing about whether or not dialers are 'morally correct' or 'decent'. You all make me laff.

[AndyRolla]

chimp - fuck off idiot

sure we've all showed a bit of moral weekness in entering the porn biz, but doesnt everyone sometime in their lives?

if people started blowing up the competitions servers and doing driveby shootings to ensure that their competitors never webmaster again, would you just say "ah well you run porn websites so therefore you have no morals whatsover and im not suprised youre blowing up servers and shooting people"

fuckin idiot

[QuietMike]

Why doesn't everyone who doesn't like the dialers NOT use them, and everyone who does like the dialers use them. Its as simple as that, by not using a dialer you are doing your part in making them more obsolete. You are not getting anywhere with all this bickering and it is only getting people angry at each-other. I don't think hardly anyone has changed their view on dialers through all of this. Its only heated the topic to the point where people are fighting.

I use dialers because it make the most money for me. That's it. As long as they are out there and making me the most profit, I will use them. You may call other webmasters and I low-lifes for using them, but guess what, its our own decision. Not yours. Everyone decides what is best for themselves, and no one has any right to tell someone else what
to do as long as it is legal.

I myself have things in everyday life that I disagree with. It doesn't mean that I go around telling people what to do. For example, I myself do not believe in formed religion. But, I also respect other peoples felling towards that issue. I will even listen to what they have to say about it, but I will not fight about it. Surely, every
point on both sides has pretty much been said. It is only now being said over and over and over again, building up the tension. I think it is about time to just drop the issue and stop acting like 5 year olds.

[Tam]

QuietMike.... I totally agree with you...... no one I have seen has changed their minds one bit, if anything it's all caused hard feelings and such with all the damn name calling....... I don't respond to all of them but I have read it all......

Can I be a low life here too? http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Tam

[chimp]

AndyRolla,
Yes, that is EXACTLY what I am saying. You nailed it right on the head there, cyberfriend. Murder and terrorism are analogous with charging people too much money for a service. Now YOU are making me laff, funny guy! :))))))))))))))))))))

[sonicpuke]

I agree that calling names accomplishes nothing.

I don't agree that noone has changed thier mind. I can see from some of the responses that some people have.

using a dialer isn't the same as being a terrorist. Neither is selling childporn though. They are both bad though whether you agree or not.

Dialers are a bad thing that ruins lives just so a couple webmasters can make money.

Just because you sell porn doesn't mean that you check all your morals at the door. We all agree that it's ok to sell porn but there are limits to what is acceptable. I started this post because I felt that if some people looked at things more closely they would realize how wrong it is.

I made many points and some people agreed. As far as I could tell richard was the only one who even attempted to adress them.

Everyone else picked out one point. (Like children being thier parents responsibility and tried to tear it down)

There are so many reasons that it's wrong. IF you don't care then fine. I tried.

Why? Because I've been doing this for 4 years and it's a lot of work. I don't mind the newcomers but it bothers me that they seem to get worse and worse with what they do.

It seems like there are people who care about nothing but making money. (For example you could make a LOT of money if you sold childporn but we all agree (I HOPE) that this is wrong) That in itself is just wrong. There are many ways to make money selling porn and there is no need to trick people into spending thier rent money for 1/2 hour of it.

It's strange that even when the FTC steps in noone realizes that it's wrong. They just move on to the next scam and say it's all good in the name of making money.

I don't want anyone to be called names though. There's no need for that. I was just trying to enlighten some minds if possible.

sonic

[magnatique]

hey, looks like some of you bitch at tam :-)

don't, she's sweet :P

hehe... now that I see those threads about dialers, I just don,t bother reading them, it's always the same thing comming back :-)

just wait guys, you'll all be happy very soon =D
right rich?

[Tam]

mag..... thanks babe.... glad someone seen me for what I am.... rotfl.... I can be when I wanna be...... I just get really irate when I see anything that has anything to do with others having to take responsibility for someone's elses kids.

yes sonic, I went off about the whole parenting thing...... THAT is one big issue I keep seeing about anything to do with just about anything.... parents always wanting to blame everyone else but themselves for the fact they are not paying attention to their kids. Maybe I was wrong for pulling that one part out and going into a tirade about that...... but it boils my blood to the absolute worst extreme when the parents have to blame others for their own lack of wanting to "deal with" the responsibility of their kids. And it's not just a porn issue with me, it's ANYTHING........ there is way too much of this going on. Of course we all wanna believe we are raising our kids to be good people, and we wanna think they do nothing wrong.... but shit I am 36 and I still need some guidance in some areas... so you know they do. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Of all the jobs I have ever done in my life or will ever do...... and as rewarding as it is... the HARDEST job in the whole world is raising a child..... and raising that child to respect himself and those around him. THAT is the job I take the most serious in my life. For anyone who has kids that they actually "know", you will know what I mean when I say that.

So as for adressing the rest of it? I didn't want to..... THAT was and is an excuse in my way of thinking.... the excuse being "I am not watching my kids so YOU should have to" The rest of your points made good sense..... and you may quite possibly be right...... BUT I will continue to use those dialers..... http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

Dammit, I did it again..... sorry. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/frown.gif

Tam

[WETDOG]

Man my eyes hurt! keep these posts shorter.

Wet

[Tam]

I get in trouble no matter what I do. LMAO

Wet, is that short enough? http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Tam

[WETDOG]

ok Tam that was a "10" GOOD JOB!

Wetdog

[Tam]

Why thanks you kind sir.... I like making the big guys happy. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Tam

[AndyRolla]

tam

if you are too stupid to make decent $$$ without ripping people off, you have noone to blame but yourself.

go get a job babysitting or flipping burgers or something more akin to your intellectual level

[snow]

UMM EXCUSE ME. Tam is a well known webmaster. Can you please be a little nicer with respect. Shes a mother of 3 man a little repect would be nice. Let me see you run 3 kids and see you pay the bills bitch..

[TheMan]

Hi you all http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

I been reading on this post from time to time and today after reading something, I really felt the need to say something.

AndyRolla fuck you, u piece of shit!

THX

TheMan

[unconnected]

As much as I love getting into pissing matches and name calling, I have to say that I second that..Geeze man, that was totally off the wall and uncalled for..I use dialers..I am actually helping to start on of the first exlusively gay dialer..Does that make my intellegence akin with a Mcdonalds burger flipper? If you want to compare anything, why don't we compare income levels?
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."
--Ben Franklin
So until you have something useful to say I recommend you shut your mouth, because no one cares to hear your name calling and put downs...

[richard]

Mag: LOL.

Its a new form of spam your are creating.

Though i have to admit, i rekon i'll have Sonic using a dialer within 2 weeks.

http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif watch out Sonic mate, i'm coming to get you... !

Rich.

[Tam]

Yall liss'n here. Andy..... they said I was not able ta work at McDonald's 'cause I had no, ummm, what is that? Ummm... schoolin? An' I tried babysittin but my kids kept eatin all those li'l kids so they told me I couldn't do that either. Are yall wif me? It was gettin hard ta splain wher all those kids wuz runnin off too. But thanks, if yall have any other good job ideas that you'd like ta suggest, I'll be mow than happy ta listen. Ya reckon?

Yall liss'n here. snow, babe, I gots 4 ofem there kiddies, unless one ofem gots eaten. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif Ya reckon?

rotfl

Tam

[richard]

And you guys thought i had a drinking problem http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

[magnatique]

no rich, we know it :-)

good one tammy girl!

[Tam]

Thanks mag, I am not really a dumbass, I just play one on these boards. LMAO

rich... honestly, I swear to you, I don't drink, and no drugs either, this is just me. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Tam

[Doctor Dre]

Every body know you have a alchool problem rich

[QuietMike]

Doesn't pretty much everyone here have one? http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[AndyRolla]

well all i can say is you guys better start practising your burger flipping skills.

when dialers die (and they will - its just a matter of time) youre all gonna be fucked.

[sandman]

AndyRolla did your mom drop you on your head when you were a little kid??
What are you 12?
Sure act like it

[Mr Exotic]

When and if something happens do the dialer, sure I will lose some money, but will be in no means fucked. Just have to find other ways to make money, dialers are making me a fortune, and I am going to stick with them until the final day, then I will just find a new way to make money. NO BIG FUCKING DEAL. YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE IF IT WERENT FOR DIALERS WE WOULD ALL WORK AT McDONALDS. There will always be a way to make your living off the internet, probably not with dialers very much longer, but there are still all kinds of good programs out there, I mean DAMN, take topcash.com for example, 40$ for a 1.95 trial membership, shit 4-5 sign ups/day is still a decent living, not great like the dialer, but no where the fuck even close to good ole Micky D's.

[Mr Exotic]

HEY, I am finally a BIG JERK!!!!!

[Tam]

MrE....... I totally agree with you...... I don't see me ever being a millionaire, but I can damn sure find some way to make more money on here than at McDonald's..... LOL

HEY!!!! I wanna be a big jerk. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Tam

[magnatique]

tam, that's not the good way to see it =D

I am nowhere near the first mil, but my goal is to have it by 24 years old ;-)


I'd rather think big, and get less, than think little, and get little..

[Tam]

mag.... you go running out and get you 4 kids, feed them, cloth them, and cater to their every whim........... no babe, I will never make it to millionaire status....... LMAO

I think in reality........ if I think too big then the BIG gets the best of me and I bust my ass......... so I keep to the small way of thinking and this way I always reach my goals..... http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Tam

[sonicpuke]

Well I never said anyone should work at mcdonalds. Just that dialers are a rippoff. They are.

sonic

[Tam]

sonic...... we know you didn't.... Andy is the one who brought that up........ LMAO

Tam

I am going to be a Big Jerk before this week is out. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

[WETDOG]

Hi Tam, are you the same Tam from PC BBS?
Just wondering? as i used to post all you ama galleries if it is you..

I hate the PC-BBS lately they have there own click over there..nuff said..

anyways let me know if this is the same tam..

Wetdog

[Zyonic]

75 posts to be a big jerk right?

[Tam]

WETDOG..... yup, that would be me...... http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif How the hell have you been?

As for clicks..... every place has their clicks, I just try to stay out of the way of them and groove to my own beat mostly though. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Tam

[Tam]

Zyonic, if that is the case, this thread is going to be a big jerk before I am.... LMAO

Tam

[Zyonic]

hehe..
im going to be a big jerk before you.. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

65vs68

j/k.. http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[sonicpuke]

The last few weeks of the dialer business have been very difficult for all
of us. The US calls were shut down, the Canadian calls were cut off and your
Checks didn't arrive in the mail.

Let me explain what happened:

Name removed is a reseller for a huge company that supplies us and many other resellers with the dialers. The name of this company is GIB (http://www.domain removed). All minutes that our webmasters send us go thru GIB. We then receive a check that we use to pay all the webmasters every 2 weeks.
Now to the problems:

The company, Verity which does the billing for all of GIB's calls was sued by the FTC and all of Verities assets were frozen. This made it impossible for Verity to pay GIB and subsequently GIB was unable to pay us. Also the
FTC stopped all calling routes from the US. We had issued payments to all webmasters unfortunately with the news of the FTC's suit we stopped all payments and we are waiting for results of the FTC law suit prior to making a decision on reissue of these funds.

I just got this in my email. I guess the FTC doesn't know what they are talking about though right?

I guess it's not really a scam right?

I suggest you don't rely on this scam to pay your bandwidth bill (Better save some of that money)