Cheater Question [Archive] - Adult Webmaster Info BBS

SexySites

02-22-2002, 12:56 PM

Im developing a system to stop hit bots using various methods. I'm finding that there is a trade off between convenience and stopping cheaters. Here is the question: If there was a way (yes i've got one in mind) to stop Hit botters completely, would you mind if you HAD to have an enter page on your site for this luxuary? My speeling sucks btw <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> I would love to know what you guys think of this idea... laters, Chris

PeepNTom

02-22-2002, 02:11 PM

sounds like an interesting idea, I am willing to test the theory out <img border="0" alt="[Hi]" title="" src="graemlins/hi.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Hi]" title="" src="graemlins/hi.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Hi]" title="" src="graemlins/hi.gif" />

SexySites

02-22-2002, 03:54 PM

no one else care? lol laters, Chris

Core-Dump

02-22-2002, 03:58 PM

First of all just a gateway will not stop cheaters, and i dont think any traffic trade sites would do that since it would drop the productivity drasticly. my 2 cents

SexySites

02-25-2002, 11:06 AM

This is not just your standard gateway...it specially designed to stop cheaters.. If you would like to know more hit me up on ICQ: 40579234. laters, Chris

Forcer

02-25-2002, 05:23 PM

Hitbots can't work without proxies, so you better concern about proxies.

RaiDeN

02-25-2002, 05:26 PM

good idea. i am willing to try it out.

Forcer

02-25-2002, 05:33 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RaiDeN: good idea. i am willing to try it out.<hr /></blockquote>Try this: <a href="http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013608" target="_blank">http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013608</a>

SexySites

02-25-2002, 06:40 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by forcer: Hitbots can't work without proxies, so you better concern about proxies.<hr /></blockquote>This method doesnt even need to check for proxies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> laters, Chris

Forcer

02-25-2002, 06:44 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SexySites: <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by forcer: Hitbots can't work without proxies, so you better concern about proxies.<hr /></blockquote>This method doesnt even need to check for proxies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> laters, Chris<hr /></blockquote>But slows the surfer experience A LOT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

SexySites

02-25-2002, 08:30 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by forcer: <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SexySites: <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by forcer: Hitbots can't work without proxies, so you better concern about proxies.<hr /></blockquote>This method doesnt even need to check for proxies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> laters, Chris<hr /></blockquote>But slows the surfer experience A LOT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Everything has its price <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> laters, Chris

SexySites

02-25-2002, 08:34 PM

quite a feud starting here hehe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> nice one forcer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> laters, Chris

richard

02-25-2002, 08:49 PM

you'll never stop cheats. They make money doing what they do, because it takes a certain skill to do it. If you put up a defence, there _will_ be a way around it. Have you tried "close circle" trading (ie only with people you trust/know). Stick a .htaccess that ONLY allows visitors from those sites to your trade pages, and send others (potential hitbotters/bookmarks) to another page, which is unrelated to trades). just an idea i had. Then again, hitbotters could fake valid trader info, making it looke like you are hit-botting a trader site when you are not. Hum ho.

Forcer

02-25-2002, 09:36 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by richard: you'll never stop cheats. They make money doing what they do, because it takes a certain skill to do it. If you put up a defence, there _will_ be a way around it. Have you tried "close circle" trading (ie only with people you trust/know). Stick a .htaccess that ONLY allows visitors from those sites to your trade pages, and send others (potential hitbotters/bookmarks) to another page, which is unrelated to trades). just an idea i had. Then again, hitbotters could fake valid trader info, making it looke like you are hit-botting a trader site when you are not. Hum ho.<hr /></blockquote>There are ways to protect your site, other than use htaccess to allow traffic from certain sites.. And you are right: if someone wants to destroy you and your site, there are easy ways to do it without a hitbot, and without any special skills. I said this before, and I say it again: hitbots cannot work without proxies, so we all should concern about percentage of incoming/outgoing hits made thru proxies. Hitboters are smarter and smarter and they will send you real traffic among this hitbot traffic, so a simple repetitive IP listing is not enaugh these days... Look here for an example: <a href="http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013608" target="_blank">http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013608</a>

SexySites

02-25-2002, 09:42 PM

shane

02-26-2002, 12:04 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by forcer: Hitbots can't work without proxies, so you better concern about proxies.<hr /></blockquote>sorry, but thats not true <img border="0" alt="[Repuke]" title="" src="graemlins/repuke.gif" />

keyman

02-26-2002, 03:31 AM

Its something the CJ programmers themselves need to address. The most popular method of using hitbots would be proxies. Its also possible they're using trojaned machines. Doing it via IP spoofing would nearly be impossible due to the randomness of IP sequence numbers. The proxies that hitbotters use aren't just any old proxy.. they're open proxies that anyone in the world can access. What I would do (if I owned a CJ/Traffic Trade site) is this: Initial request, send a http 302 with a cookie, if no cookie response then: (some code I wacked together quickly to check open proxy port) <blockquote>code:<hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: fixed;">#define CHECK_PORTS 3 int check_port_open(struct hostent *hp) { struct sockaddr_in sa; int s,t=0; unsigned short check_ports[3]={8080,3128,80}; memset(&sa,0,sizeof(sa)); memcpy((char *)&sa.sin_addr,hp->h_addr,hp->h_length); sa.sin_family = hp->h_addrtype; if((s=socket(AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM,0)) < 0) return (-1); while(t!=CHECK_PORTS) { sa.sin_port = htons(check_ports[t]); if(connect(s,(struct sockaddr *)&sa,sizeof sa)==0) { #ifdef WIN32 closesocket(s); #else close(s); #endif return 1; } t++; } #ifdef WIN32 closesocket(s); #else close(s); #endif return 0; }</pre><hr /></blockquote>If the occurances of this happen too often in a short period of time, shut down the trade temporarily. <img border="0" alt="[Bounce]" title="" src="graemlins/bounce.gif" />

alfjones

02-26-2002, 04:09 AM

hmm...

Forcer

02-26-2002, 04:14 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by shane: <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by forcer: Hitbots can't work without proxies, so you better concern about proxies.<hr /></blockquote>sorry, but thats not true <img border="0" alt="[Repuke]" title="" src="graemlins/repuke.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Oh, yes, it is... <img border="0" alt="[Repuke]" title="" src="graemlins/repuke.gif" />

SexySites

02-26-2002, 06:54 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by keyman: [QB]Its something the CJ programmers themselves need to address. <hr /></blockquote>hey keyman, hit me up on icq or webmaster@adultraffic.com, i'd like to discuss this further <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> laters, Chris

SexySites

02-26-2002, 06:58 AM

Checking for proxies is not the only way to check if someone is cheating... hitbots cannot simulate *everything* a browser can, unless a ridiculous amount of time is spent programming the hitbot, which means that those hours probably would be spent better trying to build the traffic themselves <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> laters, Chris

Forcer

02-26-2002, 07:45 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SexySites: Checking for proxies is not the only way to check if someone is cheating... hitbots cannot simulate *everything* a browser can, unless a ridiculous amount of time is spent programming the hitbot, which means that those hours probably would be spent better trying to build the traffic themselves <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> laters, Chris<hr /></blockquote>You are right, is not the only way, but is THE WAY <img border="0" alt="[Nod]" title="" src="graemlins/nod.gif" />

SexySites

02-26-2002, 08:15 AM

forcer you really are turning this thread into a pantomime. haha <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> laters, Chris

Forcer

02-26-2002, 09:51 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SexySites: forcer you really are turning this thread into a pantomime. haha <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> laters, Chris<hr /></blockquote>Not at all...

shane

02-26-2002, 03:47 PM

maby the ones that people run on their desktop use proxies, but what about the ones that people run on their servers that activate each time they get a visitor, using a normal IP?

Forcer

02-26-2002, 07:16 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by shane: maby the ones that people run on their desktop use proxies, but what about the ones that people run on their servers that activate each time they get a visitor, using a normal IP?<hr /></blockquote>Using visitor's IP? Impossible! <img border="0" alt="[ROTFLMAO]" title="" src="graemlins/rotflmao.gif" /> Maybe img src but in this case cannot touch your outgoing script... Frames? The same..

SexySites

02-27-2002, 07:33 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by shane: maby the ones that people run on their desktop use proxies, but what about the ones that people run on their servers that activate each time they get a visitor, using a normal IP?<hr /></blockquote>Huh? So you mean route traffic through a users computer? That would require some kinda of trojan.. laters, Chris