I got a letter from Germany regarding my site. PLEASE READ

[Nima]

hello,
Today I got a letter in my mail that came from Bonn, Germany.

Unfortunately I don't have my scanner and so I couldn't scan the pages of the letter so I typed it in a document.

there are 3 pages and the company's name is: Rhein-Neckar-Kreis Landratsamt www.Rhein-Neckar-Kreis.de (http://www.Rhein-Neckar-Kreis.de)

The letter has their email info and phone info. Then it has a date stamp that says

Bundesprufstelle 15. OKT. 2001

but this page seems to be a copy of an original.

paper #1 says

Antrag auf Indiziering der Internetseiten
"ONLYTEENPICS.COM BEST FREE TEENS"

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

hiermit beantragen wir die Indiezierung der "ONLYTEENPICS.COM BEST FREE TEENS"


Sacheverhalt:


Begrundung:
Das o.g. internetangebot beinhaltet pornographische Bilder von Madchen und Frauen. Die Madchen und Frauen dienen auch als Anschauungsobject, sie werden in Verbindung mit Sexualitat zu einem Konsumatikel degradiert, der sie zum sexuellen Reizobjekt und zur Wegwerware macht.

Die Madchen und Frauen werden ohne weitere menschliche Bezuge als Sexualobjekt missbraucht und dienen zur sexuellen Befriedigung des Betrachters.

U. E. ist das Angebot sexualethisch desorientierend und wir bitten, wie beantragt zu verfahren.

Mit freundliche Grusen

SIGNATURE

Schlicksupp
(Jugendschutzbeauftragte)

paper #2 says


betr.: Internet-Angebot "ONLYTEENPICS.COM BEST FREE TEENS" (http://www.onlyteenpics.com)
Anlg.: Antragskopie u. engl. Informationsblatt

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,
uber den Antrag soll gemass § 15a GjS im vereinfachten Verfahren entschieden werden.

Es wird Ihnen Gelegenheit gegeben, BINNEN EINER WOCHE ab Zustellung dieser Benachrichtigung mitzuteilen, ob und welche Einwendungen Sie gegen den Antrag und gegen die Behandlung im vereinfachten Verfahren erheben wollen.

Mit freundliche Grusen
Im Auftrag

A DIFFERENT SIGNATURE

Ute Kortlander

paper #3 is here: http://www.onlyteenpics.com/letter.doc


I am not sure what is going on as I have no illegal content on my site nor ANY child porn
I would REALLy appreciate it if someone can read this and help me by what is going on and if I am in some sort of trouble? and if I am or I am not what do I have to do exactly? I never got such letter before so I am really worried :( :( :( :( :(

[AzteK]

I'm sorry I can't help you but I'm just wondering how the hell do these people just "assume" that you know their lang. and just send you a letter...

[evildick]

I got this from an online translator. Sounds like gibberish to me, but maybe you can make some sense out of it. Anyway, it sounds like they have some objection with your content.

Try this page for translating stuff:
http://world.altavista.com/

Request for Indiziering of the Internet pages " ONLYTEENPICS.COM BEST FREE TEENS " Ladies and Gentlemen, hereby we request the Indiezierung " ONLYTEENPICS.COM of the BEST FREE TEENS " Thing-held back: Begrundung: The above mentioned Internet supply contains pornographische pictures of Madchen and women. The Madchen and women serve also as Anschauungsobject, it in connection with Sexualitat to a Konsumatikel are degradiert, which makes her the sexual attraction object and the way who commodity.

The Madchen and women are abused without further human reference than Sexualobjekt and to serve for the sexual satisfaction of the viewer. And E. is disorienting the supply sexualethisch and we asks to be proceeded as requested. With friendly Grusen SIGNATURE Schlicksupp (protection of children and young people-assigned)

Ladies and Gentlemen, more uber the request is in accordance with-ate § 1ä GjS in the simplified procedure to be decided. It is given to you opportunity to indicate WITHIN ONE WEEK starting from feed of this notification whether and which objections want to raise you against the request and against the handling in the simplified procedure. With friendly Grusen in the job

[evildick]

Shit, I just read the third page they sent you. Obviously they have a method in Germany for people to lodge complaints against porn sites that aren't protected from letting minors in. It so much as says that registering with netnanny and other sites like that is not enough. They want you to have an adult check system in place. That is some fucked up shit. Good luck.

[shane94]

Well since you are from the US I really would do not see anything they can do to you. As long as your site is legal here i do not see a problem.

Shane

[Nima]

hmm yea shane a lot of people told me that. All my site has is links NO CONTENT
there are some incest and lolita descriptions but that is ALL
no actual content and I am sure they aren't talking about that

[Sandy]

As far as i know law, people who accusing you have to accuse you in your state(place).

so if they don't write it in your language, let them go fuck them self

[Jorge]

I have seen these letters several times - if you search through this board you find them as well as reactions of some german webmasters. Since your page is accessible in Germany, and they probably have gotten a complaint, it is their duty to act. From that letter I understand, you have one week to tell them if you censor your page (or/and put it behind some age checking script). If you do not do anything, and they get another complaint, you will commit a crime acc. to german penal law. It is pretty interesting situation because you are legit acc. your local law, and you could be prosecuted in other country (Germany). They could even ask a country, you live in, for extradiction (will not happen). There might have already been a similar case ... some German webmaster could comment it.
There is one annoying thing ... if you travel to Germany, you could have serious troubles. In addition, you could face SIMILAR problems (not sure if same), when you travel in ANY EU country which is a member of Schengen Treaty ( simply said - they share visa, information on indesirable people, extradiction etc. more at http://europa.eu.int/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33020.htm ).
My advice: appeal. Send them a letter (as they imply), you must send it within a week, tell them you have no content, you are NOT "showing any women degraded to a sexual object level", and you act acc. your local law, you do not tease german minors :D etc. You can also start redirecting .de surfers to a special page.
I have noticed that these letters get usually people who run sites with questionable words -or/and- pictures ~ legit of course, but they LOOK like too young. Again, hit the search button, you find out.

[stramm]

every TGP without proper adult check is illegal in Germany. Even if you don't have content. On the other hand search engines have no problem cause they don't check the sites they are linking to and they don't have 'adult links' only.
As long as you don't visit Germany you shouldn't have any problem.
Otherwise.... you have eventually to live in a small room for some time

[Trax]

you don'tlive in germany
throw this letter away
that easy
its illegal in germany to run a porn site that does not run behind an AVS
thats it... your site is illegal in germany within one week.. fuck it.. who cares :)

[Dan S]

Germany has an index.
An index full of things that might be harmful to minors. That can be computergames (castle wolfenstein is on that list, the 10 yrs old version), video tapes (all adults only videos e.g.), websites and anything else.

They just inform you that they will put your site on that index. They give you a week to react and complain.

As far as I can see there is no further problem for you. No case filed etc.

Just that a court is going to rule if the site is going to be added to the list or not.
Even it is added to the index, you do not have to fear any further action. Also if you go to germany.

But I am not a lawyer.

[Jorge]

... will be put on a list, generally referred to as the "index". You are then no longer allowed to sell, hire or even show these things in public or broadcast them. Every violation of such a decision of the Bundesprufstelle will be punished under German jurisdicton.
They put you on index. SINCE that time (if not any action taken on your part), it is illegal in Germany, hence, you can be prosecuted acc. German penal code. Again, all members of EU DO cooperate in such things, and it could happen YOU will be put on a index. You will fly to Italy (example), and italian customs will send you back ( its like DNS record change, it slowly propagates through the system).
If you do not know German people, I can tell you they are very serious about bureaucracy, orders etc.
The worst thing, you can do is sit back, and listen to advices like "fuck them". It takes you a minute to write an appeal & 80ˇ to mail it.

[Trax]

jorge can't agree..
he can't do anything at all.. complaining in this case is useless.. as long as he doesnt change his site into an avs his site is illegal..

[Jorge]

Originally posted by Trax:
<STRONG>jorge can't agree..
he can't do anything at all.. complaining in this case is useless.. as long as he doesnt change his site into an avs his site is illegal..</STRONG>
It never hurts to use all your rights even if you know, it won´t help.
hint: what about John Doe buying your domain ? Appeal & Transfer.
Be creative ...

[e-van]

another hint, write back and tell them that you'll make your site legal in germany, redirect all .de visitors to a special page which has an AVS entry and some german dialers and you're done, you are legally well and making some extra cash...

I don't speak german, but I have a couple of friends over there that might be able to help you with the entry pages and so, contact me and I'll hook you up.

[Trax]

yes.. both points meantioned above are good..
thats really creative :) no joke

[candidpublishinginc]

Originally posted by e-van:
<STRONG>another hint, write back and tell them that you'll make your site legal in germany, redirect all .de visitors to a special page which has an AVS entry and some german dialers and you're done, you are legally well and making some extra cash...

I don't speak german, but I have a couple of friends over there that might be able to help you with the entry pages and so, contact me and I'll hook you up.</STRONG>

Screw the AVS, just hit em up with a dialer! German law says that you site must be either behind a German AVS or a dialer.

Signup with Telcoweb and you're all set.

[phoneman]

Germany has prosecuted before. I have hosting customers who host with me after they became afraid of german hosting. I beleive it was Compuserve who was brought to trial.