View Full Version : Bigdoggie.net Gets Busted
Hey bros! I just saw on the news that an Escort Site, here local to me just got busted today! He ran a web site called BIGDOGGIE.NET, it was one of the most popular escort site in the world. And he was reportedly making 17K/month! As you might or might not know, I also run an escort site, and I am very worried! I thought that what I was doing was legal! I've seen hundred of escorts sites, dating services, etc. I am very worried and could use someone's legal advice! I have been seeing many escort site going down the past couple month! They have been disappearing left and right! I do not want to get busted for it! But why are sites like Adult Friend Finder legal? When half the listings there are escorts!?
WiredGuy
06-18-2002, 05:25 PM
Can you post a link to a newspaper clipping? Chances are they were busted for knowingly letting prostitutes use their site as a medium to solicit sex. If you can avoid this, then you should be fine. The actual escort business is fully legal, its the solicitation of sex which isn't. Either way, you may want to talk to EscortBiz, he's the local expert in this industry :-)
WG
http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/Press_Releases/Press_Releases/2002/02-270.htm
I don't understand all the terms they use.. if and legal know-hows could visit my site I would appreciare you reviewing it for it's legalness please! gfedirectory.com
hornybunny
06-18-2002, 06:45 PM
I contemplated getting into the escort online biz a while back but a local Canadian site got busted as well and that is just too risque a business for me. If any of these customers or clients have any reference when they get busted, it may be a website.
I'm so fucking fucked! This was paying my fucking bills and now I'm fucked! Fuck fuck fuck FUCK! :mad:
Shannon
06-18-2002, 06:52 PM
Damn... These are some very serious charges for it too:
Conspiracy to Racketeer, Committing Prostitution, Deriving Support from Prostitution, Aiding and Abetting Prostitution, Procuring Prostitutes, Maintaining an Establishment for Prostitution, Resisting an Officer Without Violence and Tampering with evidence.
Makes me wonder why their site is still live...
Originally posted by Shannon
Damn... These are some very serious charges for it too:
Conspiracy to Racketeer, Committing Prostitution, Deriving Support from Prostitution, Aiding and Abetting Prostitution, Procuring Prostitutes, Maintaining an Establishment for Prostitution, Resisting an Officer Without Violence and Tampering with evidence.
Makes me wonder why their site is still live...
LE is controlling the site... I tryed to warn everyone on the site, posted a message. I repsponded to a couple of other msg bout the bust. All were deleted. I tried to post again, but my account had been deleted!
I've never seen your site before but you shouldn't have a problem if you site is a real escort service. The definition= A man/women who acts as a companion of a woman/man in public. If you site charges people for access to find people for the sole purpose of sex then i would change how it operates. Reword your words i.e. " are you lonely and tired of being alone? Then subscribe to our database and find that special someone to spend time with." Again im never seen your site but i would base it more around a dating service then the sole purpose of sex like many sites i've seen do.
toker
06-18-2002, 08:20 PM
Great now you attempted to blow the cover and they most likely have all your info. Real smart idea to show your face on the site so when they find you run an escort site you will really be fucked.
manga
06-18-2002, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by toker
Great now you attempted to blow the cover and they most likely have all your info. Real smart idea to show your face on the site so when they find you run an escort site you will really be fucked.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Very bad idea posting there. You can be sure that if they're coming down on these sites they are watching the message boards and chatrooms.
After reading that text from the link, and visiting the site in question, I can't believe he got away with it for so long. I would have expected him to get shut down within a week if he did all they say he did.
The adult web is risky enough for me... promoting prostitution on the net is asking for trouble.
Originally posted by WiredGuy
Either way, you may want to talk to EscortBiz, he's the local expert in this industry :-)
WG
I doubt he's in any mood to talk now. Probably on the phone with his lawyer. :)
I don't understand why they have legal CP sites, and they want to fuck with us instead... :mad:
How does someone get charged with 13 counts of prostitution? Did the whole fucking police squad get a date with the escort?
If you just ran a straight forward directory listing escort ads, I don't think they can fuck with you.
I think the following couple sentences pasted from the link in the first post are mainly what got him into trouble:
<quote>
The web page provides detailed instructions on how to secure the services of a prostitute, including how to solicit sexual acts, how to pay for those acts and how to avoid law enforcement during “dates”. The web page also provides a list of slang terms for sexual acts that the prostitutes provide.
</quote>
Originally posted by Inde
If you just ran a straight forward directory listing escort ads, I don't think they can fuck with you.
I think the following couple sentences pasted from the link in the first post are mainly what got him into trouble:
<quote>
The web page provides detailed instructions on how to secure the services of a prostitute, including how to solicit sexual acts, how to pay for those acts and how to avoid law enforcement during “dates”. The web page also provides a list of slang terms for sexual acts that the prostitutes provide.
</quote>
I found a web site with free legal advise from lawyers and I'm waiting for a response... should be a couple days... I think you are right. I might only need to get rid of my message bases and modify some of their ads.
Toxictoy
06-18-2002, 09:15 PM
I found this site a while ago - they deal exclusively with law matters that relate to the internet adult industry
http://www.adultsitelaw.com/
cherries22
06-18-2002, 09:40 PM
Well I must say I do not know much about the law! But here is my take on this with a good lawyer he should be able to get out of this.. He is not doing anything really wrong from what I can see. He is only providing a fourm for prostotution to take place. It would be like them busting this board for unknown reasons and charging the owners with something, they are only providing a meeting place for other webmasters to chat,,,, he is only providing a meeting place for hookers and men or girls to meet others for sex. He has no control over what they meet for.. Now if he was making a profit off each sex act that took place, then you might have something here,,,, He would be a pimp! I do not know much about this type of site or how it operates but that Is the way I see it. While Iam on the topic, I still do not understand why prostatution is illegal to start with, I mean selling is legal, fucking is legal, why is selling fucking illegal??? Even better Say I go to Ebay and I buy a car that I or the owner of Ebay did not know was stolen! Could they hold the owner of Ebay responsable for Grand Theft Auto???? Basically that is what it seems to me they are doing! Now the only problem with this argument is I assume he knew what was taking place on his site,, but still why are they not busting the girls on the sites that are really doing somthing illeagel??
toker
06-18-2002, 10:06 PM
Uh well if you actually read the info you would see the girls were busted and charged with various crimes and you would also find that the owner of the operation was exchanging sexual favors instead of charging the girls for using his services to get clients.
So basically he violated the law he then tried to destroy evidence to protect himself and got himself in more shit for that. Just wait till the IRS audits him for taxes he didnt pay because instead of cash he was paid with sex they will nail him real good also.
As for why prostitution is illegal well its not as long as you have an entertainment license and you dont chrge for sex but you rather charge for companionship and give sex as a bonus. another reason is prostitutes dont pay taxes just like drug dealers and the govenrment has no way to regulate the industry.
Do you want aids infested crack whores standing in front of your house soliciting sex to people?
Most of them dont charge money they just want a fix for the trix and thats what makes it even worse some crackhead meets another crackhead they have sex and pass the needle around. So it becomes a big problem of spreading diseases and other health issues which then since they dont have a real job and get wealfare the tax payers suport these people and pay for their medical care.
I could go on and on but if you have half a brain im sure you can understand why prostitution is illegal. Its not just about the sex its about other things like the pimps who rape and beat the shit out of the girls and most are forced into the lifestyle. Girls get kidnapped every day and sold to foreign countries or in some places they sell their children into sexrings who raise them into prostitution.
code||die
06-18-2002, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by toker
As for why prostitution is illegal well its not as long as you have an entertainment license and you dont chrge for sex but you rather charge for companionship and give sex as a bonus. another reason is prostitutes dont pay taxes just like drug dealers and the govenrment has no way to regulate the industry.
Do you want aids infested crack whores standing in front of your house soliciting sex to people?
Most of them dont charge money they just want a fix for the trix and thats what makes it even worse some crackhead meets another crackhead they have sex and pass the needle around. So it becomes a big problem of spreading diseases and other health issues which then since they dont have a real job and get wealfare the tax payers suport these people and pay for their medical care.
I could go on and on but if you have half a brain im sure you can understand why prostitution is illegal. Its not just about the sex its about other things like the pimps who rape and beat the shit out of the girls and most are forced into the lifestyle. Girls get kidnapped every day and sold to foreign countries or in some places they sell their children into sexrings who raise them into prostitution.
You have posted the effects of it being illegal, rather than the reasons for making it illegal.
You see, if it wasn't illegal, prostitutes would have to pay taxes, and the government would be more able to regulate the industry. For instance, with obligatory monthly STD tests for prostitutes. Furthermore, legalizing it would most likely drive all bad pimps out of existence, since the whole business wouldn't be underground anymore, and the police and such would have more control on and insight in what happened.
Personally, I don't like prostitution. I think it's a bit icky. But it's gonna be around anyway, there's no way to stop it, so why not choose the most effective strategy in preventing the unwanted side-effects?
Well everyone here seems to like pornstars... and porno is legal. That doesn't make sence to me. An escort doesn't have to fuck and still gets paid. Escorts aren't illegal but prostitutes are, and what is a pornstar but a prostitute? I don't get it. The government is a bunch of hippocrits.
TwinTone
06-18-2002, 11:38 PM
Dude.. pay a lawyer to review your site. Make any changes that need to be made. I wouldn't be waiting around for some free legal advice! Call a lawyer.. it would cost you about $200 to have the site checked out. Not that much money for the piece of mind, and much less then you will be spending if you get your ass in a sling.
Just my 2 cents.
WiredGuy
06-18-2002, 11:45 PM
Ok, well this is very interesting indeed. I read the entire article and the charges aren't exactly clear. Obviously, the owners having sex with the escorts in exchange for payment is breaking the law. And I also believe the section on their site which describes how to avoid police raids and getting arrested is also aiding people perform the illegal act. But the fundamental concept of the site doesn't seem to be illegal.
Regardless, I am very interested in seeing a legal point of view on this since I will be promoting escort sites very shortly. Would be nice to get piece of mind from a lawyer or someone with past experience on the law on this topic (Escortbiz, any thoughts?).
Obviously escort services are legal since they exist in every major city worldwide, but I'm interested in seeing what this site did that crossed the line. Was it the owners having sex with the girls, or was it the owners knew of the sexual favours being exchanged? What was the act that crossed the line??
WG
Wow.... this article says he was making $30k-$80k per month!
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/florida/MGA5R00BM2D.html
manga
06-19-2002, 01:28 AM
Looking at what these guys got charged with, I would say that someone running an escort site like this one could be charged with:
Conspiracy to Racketeer (a conspiracy argument could easily be made)
Deriving support from Prostitution (you're making money from the prostitutes and the guys looking for prostitutes therefore it can be argued that you're deriving support from prostitution)
Aiding and Promoting Prostitution (self-explanatory... you're promoting prostitution and your helping prostitutes find clients and vice versa)
Obstructing an Investigation (because you're showing people how to avoid getting caught by the cops thereby obstructing their investigation)
Just looking at that site it is pretty obvious that everyone is talking about sexual favours being exchanged. You can only push the escort thing so far, but on that site they're not even trying to hide the fact that it's a lot more than just companionship. They should've been more discreet. Also, these guys should've moved their company offshore. They were making enough money to do it.
Sandy
06-19-2002, 04:22 AM
Doesn't it matter were you server with the content is placed?
I mean, if it is located in a country in wich prostitution is illegal then you are in violation
place it here in Holland, and i don't think they can do anything to you
toker
06-19-2002, 01:05 PM
Its like this if you have a site hosted in another country and you live in the US and your biz is in US then you must obey US law.
richard
06-19-2002, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by toker
Its like this if you have a site hosted in another country and you live in the US and your biz is in US then you must obey US law.
arguably if you do business in the US, then you also must follow the law.
WiredGuy
06-19-2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by richard
arguably if you do business in the US, then you also must follow the law.
From a legal point of view, this is true. But enforcement is hard to do if you have no presence in the US.
WG
Could someone look at my page too and tell me what they think? If there are any sections you think I should change or remove to be legal? http://gfedirectory.com
All input is much appreciated!
Man... the news is really twisting this shit around. They're making it sound llike he's a big organized ring leader pimping out prostitutes all over the world. That's just total bullshit. It's a friggin escort listing with a message board and there's thousands of them! I can't believe what there saying! :cussing:
EscortBiz
06-19-2002, 05:51 PM
Gfed there is more to the story then the eye sees way more to it I got the whole scoop today thats why I waited to post until I know hardcore facts of what was going on. Anc by the way he was billing almost a million dollars a month!
Originally posted by EscortBiz
Gfed there is more to the story then the eye sees way more to it I got the whole scoop today thats why I waited to post until I know hardcore facts of what was going on. Anc by the way he was billing almost a million dollars a month!
So what's the scoop? How can we keep ourselves from being hastled like him? From what I've been reading, if you charge a membership for your site them you are responsible if someone engages in sex with anyone contacted from your site. IS THAT TRUE?
As of today June 18th 2002 these are the current news and my advice to webmasters and advertisers.
This is my personal opinion, if you don't like it GFY!
Bigdoggie.net is a PaySite not a free site. That's one of the reasons he got in trouble. He made money on Adult Entertainers and Members alike. However some of the Adult Entertainers did more than just lapdance, some provided sex. At this point Charlie made money on setting up Prostitutes and John's.
xxxxxx.com is a free site. We are not in business for any financial gain but only to bring true Adult Entertainers, Escorts, Dancers and Web Amateurs closer to the public as a free resource for advertisements.
Being an Escort is not against the law! However receiving gain from sex is considered prostitution!
Webmasters who run a paysite are vulnerable to these laws like Escorts and should be aware of that as we just found out with Bigdoggie.
My personal advice (this is my opinion!) is as follows.
If you pay for advertisements on the internet OR if you prospective client must pay to retrieve your contact information than the website owner might be liable if the Escort does more than just have dinner!
You are also more scrutinized by Law Enforcement even if you don't do anything wrong. The police seem to think you might have something to hide if they have to pay to get your contact information. Most of us don't want their phone numbers public and prefer a Members Only area for true potential clients and not just some kids crank calling us. However with Bigdoggie now closing I don't know if this is the way to go.
Should you continue to pay for ads or continue to advertise on sites where they make Surfers pay to retrieve your contact information? I cannot answer this for you! Would I? Well most have received my newsletter for the past 5 years and you all know what I think about paying for ads. It stinks! I paid for a membership on bigdoggie because I wanted to see what was said and who advertises where etc. However I rarely posted. So yes I too am in the system for the Florida police department and am not happy about it.
I think it is wrong. We subscripers of Bigdoggie didn't do anything wrong and now our names are all over some police station getting checked out!
So, poor Charlie, poor Escorts who were tricked.. this just all sucks major.
And to all you're Escort Webmasters out there. I don't know what to tell you all either. Contact your lawyer and explain to him/her what happened to bigdoggie if you run an Escort members site.
If you are a visitor and surfer on Big Doggie than you better read this
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/florida/MGA5R00BM2D.html
http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/Press_Releases/Press_Releases/2002/02-270.htm
EscortBiz
06-19-2002, 06:03 PM
well the only way out is to link to my affiliate program other then that Gfed ill be arresting you tonight at about 2, kidding :D
If that was the case why the 2 year investigation? nah there is so much that was happenin
Originally posted by EscortBiz
well the only way out is to link to my affiliate program other then that Gfed ill be arresting you tonight at about 2, kidding :D
If that was the case why the 2 year investigation? nah there is so much that was happenin
Well the news sure isn't doing a good job telling the story. This guy wasn't a pimp, he was just a webmaster. They're making sound like they brought down a big world-wide operation of protitution rings!
...well? How about some advice from the pro? You've seen my site... I could use some input. :D
EscortBiz
06-19-2002, 06:43 PM
Gfed trust me you know nothing about that guy
WiredGuy
06-19-2002, 08:27 PM
Don't believe what the press claims. They were told the story from the police's side only. For all you know, this guy could have been a simple geek working on his computer and had lots of traffic. Or, on the other extreme he could have been a major pimp and knew about the sex and everything else that happened. What matters from here on in, is whats presented at trial. The trial will set the precedence and not the press.
The police is doing exactly what they planned, they're sending a sense of fear in everyone else who's in a similiar situation.
WG
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