Telco FUCKS US Webmasters

[Slickman]

Here's an email that was recieved by my reseller from Telco, from what I get outta it, they're gonna fuck all of the US webmasters. I don't think that it's fair at all :(


Attn: All Resellers, Webmasters and Account Representatives

This update is to inform all accounts and representatives of the current status of operations, payroll and news about the US market. Be sure to read through the message in its entirety before contacting a support staff member with any additional questions.

Since the case with the FTC was finalized, we have been working to get all operations back up and running in the manner we are known for before the case started. As many you know, the case with the FTC had limited our ability to conduct our day to day operations due to the details put forth by the TRO (Temporary Restraining Order) enforced during the months we were in court.

Our primary focus has been to process all outstanding payroll for our accounts and pay out for minutes earned through the end of June. Since the TRO was lifted we proceeded to go forth and collect all funds for our $3.99 1-900 owed to us which was frozen by the FTC. When we finally got our statements after the freeze, we discovered that despite sending millions of minutes our account actually shows a rather large negative balance and no funds have been forthcoming. The way the billing cycle works in the USA is very complex , we are paid 90 days behind but all charges including customer support / transport and chargebacks are applied real-time. The bottom line is we are several cycles in front of any dialer company using 3rd party billing at this price point the figures simply melt down. Anyone who has been in this business longer than a year will know that using this method of billing was simply the last option left after MCI closed its doors , it was an experiment at best - we chose $3.99 as we thought it was a fair price to the consumer whilst allowing revenue to provide an outpayment to webmasters. Other dialer companies came along side us paying out 80 and 90 cents to you all for USA minutes using the same billing company that we use. If you would like to see what a $3.99 1-900 minute is worth on month 10 please review the statement below. When you look through the statement below, notice how this statement doesn't show a high chargeback rate but a combination of all charges and the way they are applied and what is due to us.

4/5 SUBMISSIONS
IGT REJECTED BILLING

407-****
$91,375.76
-$1,759.59

454-****
$0.00
$0.00

454-****
$0.00
$0.00

454-****
$526.68
$0.00

786-****
$881.79
-$39.90

896-****
$502.74
-$31.92

976-****
$0.00
$0.00

TOTALS
$93,286.97
-$1,831.41

SUBMISSIONS - REJ
$91,455.56

TELCO HOLDBACK
-$7,316.44

PROCESSING FEE
-$7,316.44

RESERVE FUNDING
-$7,316.44

TOTAL
-$21,949.32

RUNNING TOTAL
$69,506.24

TELCO UNBILLABLE

407-****
-$6,591.48

454-****
$0.00

454-****
$0.00

454-****
-$135.66

786-****
-$219.45

896-****
-$55.86

976-****
$0.00

TOTAL
-$7,002.45

RUNNING TOTAL
$62,503.79

TELCO CHARGEBACKS

407-****
-$19,442.43

454-****
$0.00

454-****
$0.00

454-****
-$115.71

786-****
-$418.95

896-****
-$239.40

976-****
$0.00

TOTAL
-$20,216.49

RUNNING TOTAL
$42,287.30

CALL CENTER REFUNDS

407-****
-$32,424.68

454-****
$0.00

454-****
$0.00

454-****
-$167.58

786-****
-$201.10

896-****
-$235.41

976-****
$0.00

TOTAL
-$33,028.77

RUNNING TOTAL
$9,258.53

TELCO BILLING FEE
-$1,400.51

TELCO RECOURSE
-$4,315.04

NON-SPECIFIC

TELCO UNBILLABLE
-$77.50

NON-SPECIFIC

TELCO WRITE OFF
-$198.96
NON-SPECIFIC

IGT INQUIRIES
-$2,438.48

IGT CHARGEBACKS
$0.00
NON-SPECIFIC

IGT VOUCHERS
$0.00
SO BELL C/B'S

AT&T NUMBER FEE
-$600.00
JULY
6

MCI NUMBER FEE
-$120.00
JULY
8

TRANSPORT $.315
-$9,132.80
MAY EST 80,679
ACTUAL 109,672

TRANSPORT $.315
-$440.84
6/29-6/30
1399.49

TRANSPORT $.315
-$923.94
7/1-7/5
2933.13

TELCO BILLING FEE
$0.00
CREDIT
NON SPECIFIC

TOTAL
-$19,648.07

REMITTANCE DUE
-$10,389.54

BALANCE
-$383,486.46

-$393,876.00

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

US Route/Market over the past 10 months.

To give you a better understanding of the US market, the following will go over the changes in the US since last year. Almost a year ago AT&T pulled out of the 1-900 industry and started the path of the collapse in the US market as we know it today. They shut down all operations and terminated all staff in the support department within 30 days. AT&T kept all money in escrow earned by dialers until they finished reviewing all charges and costs. Because the US law works on the side of the consumer, they are able to hold all funds for 12 months which is the time limit a consumer is allowed to dispute the bill and receive credit for their 1-900 charges. This sent all the dialer companies into a frenzy looking for an alternate solution.

The next option that appeared in the market was MCI. They came into the picture offering a solution but had never taken on the amount of traffic or business before. They had limited experience with dialers and within 2 billing cycles opted out of the industry leaving everyone scrambling for another solution for 1-900 in the US.

We decided not to use MCI based on the fact that if AT&T, the industry leader, couldn't handle it MCI never had a chance. We went with a third party billing company that had the ability to use the AT&T numbers and equipment and handle all the accounting and support. Luckily this kept us out of any problems when MCI pulled out and caused havoc for payout. This was a decision that we made with the thought that this option would keep us away from another possible disaster within the industry.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Standing in the US

This brings us to where we are today. Since we were the first company to use the 3rd party billing company we have the longest history with them and can already see the trend of where it is going to go. After the time, costs and effort we put forth to clear our name in the US and have our funds released, we found out that there is nothing to collect. We've carefully monitored the statements to see if the trend within the bell curve would take a turn in our favor, but so far it is a slow change with not much result.

We decided to begin payroll processing by sending out all international payout splitting all money owed into 2 payments. To date over 500 wires and payments have gone out with the rest to follow within the next 7-10 business days.

[richard]

sorry, point me to where it says they are going to fuck over all US webmasters.

Dont get it confused with the point where they say international payout is being sent - that means they are paying on all the money people made from international minutes.

[Michel]

too bad for you... You should have thought about this before
you started ripping of your visitors.

[Slickman]

Wooops, I should rephrase that and say that we're gonna be screwed outta our US minutes, WHICH is a huge majority of out payouts.

[mr leno]

yuppies!! now all you dialer losers will go out of business! i love it when cheaters cheat cheaters outta their money.

[blind]

OH, but dialers aren't going down the drain the business is only getting better, right Candid? You can only fuck surfers over for so long...

[Nude Central]

Thats sucks Slick. I've been fucked out of several thousand by varadox so I know how it feels

[ceramic]

After the time, costs and effort we put forth to clear our name in the US and have our funds released, we found out that there is nothing to collect.


this is what he means were getting fucked how they gonna pay us if theres no money there getting atleast as they claim.

[unconnected]

LOL, all of you righteous little pukes can take your opinions about us evil dialer people and shove it..
You are so much better than everyone else aren't you? If a surfer wants to pay 3.99 per minute, let him, when is the last time you said no when someone gave you money?
To call dialers a rip off because of people like EBS, Niteline, and those companies is the same as calling every paysite a rip off because of the latest CC scammer to come out..

Righteousness doesn't suit anyone in this business, especially those that have no education on what they are talking about..
Go jump on some other band wagon kiddies, we are tired of hearing how horrible we are, cause you are scream until you are blue in the face, we still aren't going to feel bad about ourselfs.

[minerva]

People who hate dialers should ignore threads about dialers. How difficult is that to do? If I saw a thread about a per sale program and didn't use them, I wouldn't jump in and say I hate per sale programs because they all shave. Show some respect for the other people that use the board.

[AgentCash]

Well put minerva, dialers have made me plenty of money, but this shakeout even has me pulling back my promotion of them. I'm going to hold out and see who's around in 6 months before I go full-fledge pushing them again. Telco is one of the few places I thought was rock-solid, and this is all quite unnerving.

Just goes to show, you need to spread that shit out. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. I don't mind cashing 50 small checks instead of one large one, if it means security and peace of mind. That's a rough deal for those of you not in the states having to pay $10-$15 just to cash one check but some things you need to look at as a required expense, and I'd pay that in a heartbeat if it meant I would always be getting paid even if a few places went under.

[shane94]

Originally posted by unconnected
LOL, all of you righteous little pukes can take your opinions about us evil dialer people and shove it..
You are so much better than everyone else aren't you? If a surfer wants to pay 3.99 per minute, let him, when is the last time you said no when someone gave you money?
To call dialers a rip off because of people like EBS, Niteline, and those companies is the same as calling every paysite a rip off because of the latest CC scammer to come out..

Righteousness doesn't suit anyone in this business, especially those that have no education on what they are talking about..
Go jump on some other band wagon kiddies, we are tired of hearing how horrible we are, cause you are scream until you are blue in the face, we still aren't going to feel bad about ourselfs.


Yeah if you don't like dialers avoid the trends. If you could add a dialer to your site and make 10k more per month you are telling me you would not do that? Either you are a bad businessman or a fat ass liar. Either way if you don't like them don't use them but keep your ignorant ass comments to yourself :finger:

Shane

[mr leno]

if dialers werent a ripoff why would there be so many chargebacks and the dialer industry wouldnt be in the situation they're in now. :finger: i love it when these little dialer bitches complain they didnt get paid for their minutes. it treats you right for gypping off the poor surfer!

[minerva]

I agree Agentcash, I've lost alot of money from non-paying dialers over the past year. I'm not sure why Telcoweb is having this problem with their USA billing company, but I'm very happy they're sending out the international minute payments. If what they're saying is true then it seems that the company they were doing business with is fraudulently withholding payment.

[minerva]

Mr. Leno, go to another thread you whiny bitch

[AgentCash]

Mr Leno, why do you put people down in every single thread? GFY seems more suited to your attitude. We try to keep it nice and professional here, we're all trying to make money and help each other, there's no reason to attack those you don't agree with. You're doing the same thing to xxxinnovations just because he wants to sell his site. Makes me glad this board has an ignore feature.

[MaidenMoon]

I have a few words to say to those who are whinning about these dialers....First off...If your that dumb to click on to anything you haven't read about,you should be charged just for being stupid. No one forced a person to click that little activation button.You all had to do something in order to get charged.

Mr.Leno...Did you not read the fine print...Did you get shafted? You fucked yourself,and blaming the dialer companies....Get a fucking life and you won't have to worry about them dialer companies ripping you off!!!Don't be pulling your pud so long and your bill won't be so high!!!

I am no webmaster,no computer whiz...and even I know better than to click on something I don't want.

With all the dumb asses out there such as yourself Mr.Leno...Them dialers are far from running out of business.People like you is what keeps the money rolling in!!!

[minerva]

It sucks that telcoweb is having a problem coming up with the money for the USA minutes. I'm happy to get the money for overseas minutes at least. I know they're trying. I just wish they would have tried a little harder before doing business with the people who are defrauding them now.

[DialerNET]

Originally posted by MaidenMoon
Did you not read the fine print...Did you get shafted?

You don't need to read the fine print to see that your gonna be charged.. it's thrown in your face in big bold letters.
Of course, people that don't like dialers prefer living in the past when they WERE a little shady. God forbid should they do a little research and actually LOOK at todays dialers before making a twit of themselves in front of everyone.
Now they are a legitamate form of alternate billing.
The reason there's so many chargebacks, is because the consumer has their ass licked. All they have to do to charge back is say, "I don't want to pay for that" - and that's it.. They can get away with ripping us off.
They know damn well that there's a charge for using the dialers - unless they're blind. But they also know damn well that they can get away with not paying it.

At the moment, it appears that per minute is not worth the risk in the US any more under the current system and routes. Per call dialers are a much more stable option at this point, and billers aren't kicking up a whining fuss over them like they do with per minute dialers.

Jason.

[Shannon]

I agree with what Jason from DialerNET said, as well as a few others too. If someone does'nt know they are going to be charged for using a dialer they are blind.

Almost every dialer I see these days have the price of the call right at the top of the disclaimer, as well as being 2 font sizes larger that the rest of the text in the disclaimer. If they cant see that then they are screwed anyways.

Regarding the pricing of per minute dialers. I dont use them anymore and solely use drop charge dialer, but per minute dialers dont charge anymore than Miss Cleo or any of the other chat lines you see on late night tv. And for you skeptics out there, my question is you are telling me that those folks dont know they are getting charged for the call? If not, then why is it so unbelievable that someone would pay a high fee for a premium site via a dialer?

Afrer being in the dialer game for just over 3 years... I feel the safest way to go at this point is the drop charge dialers. I've seen many come and go and I would like to advice anyone relying on their per minute dialer to feed theoir family to throw some other sponsors into your mix. As its not if you get fucked on a per minute dialer, but when and for how much.


Best Of Luck ;)

[playa]

Deja Vu all over again

[Arthur]

Dialers are wonderful. I use them frequently to complement my own personal collection. At $240-$300 per hour, they are tremendously good value for money. Despite the necessity to take out a second mortgage on my home, I simply cannot think of any more efficient manner in which to build a collection of world-class pornographic material.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[Shannon]

Arthur - Since you posted the same post on two threads I will repost my previous answer:

Actually the one we use charges $34.95 and the end user gets a username/password that is good for a month to the members area. So in my eyes, it's no different than a regular monthly membership.

[mr leno]

This maidenmoon bitch is funny! now bend down and blow me you bitch!!

[DialerNET]

Actually the one we use charges $34.95 and the end user gets a username/password that is good for a month to the members area. So in my eyes, it's no different than a regular monthly membership.

As do the DialerAccess dialers for USA calls.

Jason.

[Niki]

ban this kid

Originally posted by mr leno
This maidenmoon bitch is funny! now bend down and blow me you bitch!!

[mr leno]

why you wanna blow me too,niki?

[Nyonic]

I've heard some nasty stories about this Telcoweb folks. From stealing other dialer companies clients to not paying webmasters and claiming that they weren't paid (when in fact they were).

When you deal with FUCKS like Telcoweb, you get burned.

Now...I've heard of a few new dialer programs on the horizon, so I'm looking forward to the future. My dialer promotion makes me some good money :)

[MaidenMoon]

Mr.Leno...Maybe in your wildest fantasies you would have the opportunity to be blown by me.....I guess it would be cheaper to pay me then to get shafted by them dialers!!!Probably feel better than taking care of business yourself!!!Unfortunately for you...I am married,and my husband satisfies my needs....There is no need for dialers in my home!!!

[bartman]

Well Said Nyonic.
I have been dealing with dialers since 1997 and have had a paysite since 96'. The whole world does not use credit cards there for there will always be a need for dialers. I got burned the worst from a Credit Card billing company DMR ,when they went under I lost 50K a month and all the recurring from that.

I have seen numerious dialer companies go under, and in the last 5 years I have only been burned twice and I paid my people from my own pocket. The key is that most dialer connections only last a year at best, and always know the Dialer market and the player's. It always seems to go in circles. The day of the reliable reseller is comming back. There were so many Newbie's on here nobody knew who from who. Trust me folks get on with a good re-seller who knows all the players and listen to them if they say switch then switch. We will all continue to loose money with ventures on the internet but I have made far more than I have lost. It's what we do afterward that decides if we will be in this business for the long haul.

Look to the future...Look for the Money.... and let the past be that, just the past.

"There was dialerking"
"There was Telcoweb"

Now I am the future...(for Now)
For All those that still believe in dialers give us a try I'll gaurentee you'll make some money..
All the rest "Fuck Off" I don't need your business, I have done this long enough I don't need your crap.

AlternativebBilling.com (http://alternativebilling.com)
I have a Working International USA Connection that pay's $0.40

[AgentCash]

Originally posted by bartman

All the rest "Fuck Off" I don't need your business, I have done this long enough I don't need your crap.

I can understand focusing on that 20% that makes you more money (the good 'ol 80-20 rule), I can understand not doing business with the squeaky wheels. In fact many sales manuals tell you to do exactly what you did with that sentence, but I have to say that I refuse to do business with anyone that's willing to talk like that to potential clients. There's no need for it. It makes you seem unprofessional. You may be the future, but you're certainly not my future.

[bartman]

Agentcash:

Ya your right That does sound tacky and unprofesional.
And this was not the image I was trying to portray.
Sometimes I get tired of all the bashing the dialer industry takes.

It is a volatile market, dialers and we should learn to take the good with the bad. I get frustrated with the New people sometimes they don't understand the Telecommunications industry.

My appologise to the newbies and whoever else I might have offended for my overly passionate approch to those that cause me grief.

Adam...
AlternativeBilling.com (http://alternativebilling.com)

[AgentCash]

The industry takes such a bashing because there is so much money to be made. Same with anything. We have people starting threads on here all the time "Such an such sponsor is shaving me!", or "So and so sucks ass!". It's just one of the little annoyances than comes with the business. Many people have lost a lot of money with dialers, but I don't see it as any different than the countless other types of sponsors that have gone under and taken the people's money. It's all about the risk/return ratio. If someone has a chance to double their income with a dialer, with the small/medium chance of not getting paid, then they should be willing to take it. As long as they aren't relying on that money to eat, it's just extra icing on the cake when they do get paid.

That was very upstanding of you to come back and set the record straight. I wish you the best of luck in your venture.

[Shannon]

bartman - Are you Ron Tan or is your dialer backed by him and Ricky?

[bartman]

Shannon,
I have worked with Ron Tan off and on for over 2 years this current deal is not with them although I do resell for them right now as well. There is a new dialer in the works from him, that I will be marketing.

AlternativeBilling.com (http://alternativebilling.com)

[bartman]

The routes I am currently marketing are the best paying as well as the best performing routes I have come across in a very long time (No Bullshit Here)
Heck don't take my word for it try it out for a week..
It can't get any worse than whats out there.
Adam...

[Zern]

Originally posted by bartman
The routes I am currently marketing are the best paying as well as the best performing routes I have come across in a very long time (No Bullshit Here)
Heck don't take my word for it try it out for a week..
It can't get any worse than whats out there.
Adam...

Can you post a working demo link?:)

[bartman]

Sure.
Here is a link to a customers dialer.......

http://download.tibsystems.com/?a=108184&t=0003