WHO THINKS DIALERS SUCK? [Archive] - Adult Webmaster Info BBS

richard

06-07-2001, 03:51 PM

my point was provocative, i dont really stand by it, in my book, tgps are not all that bad.

Hell, "there are too many movies on TV, so people won't go and rent a film or goto the cinema".

Hey, thats a pretty good analogy http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif.

Sure, people won't rent the older films that they can watch on cable, but if they want the very latest in special effects/acting, then they will.

As for dialers, i'm biased, so in my opinion http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif they rock, and everyone should use them.

You could argue that it would encourage credit card use, because with a credit card, you get better value for money.

harvey

06-07-2001, 05:25 PM

C'mon, you cannot be serious, the facts are

a) Dialers are just a scam
b) Even when you tell mr. dumby the dialer is not free (and not all dialers do that), mr. dumby is eager to see the so called "free" stuff, and then... bang! 4 to 7 dollars a minute. Just download a 20 pics page (with all the pics and mr. dumby paid more than a FULL month of qulaity porn
c) As long as money doesn't smell, you can do money any way you want, but it doesn't mean something has changed, it's still a scam
d) I don't give a shit, but I tried 3 (three) different dialers, and 2 of them cheated me, plus now I'm getting like thousand mails and ICQ messages from some Dialer Boss, and I think this dialer fever is going way too far
e) Dialers are hurting the "per se" low credibility adult sites have
f) Did you find your sign-ups decreased all along the last year? Think about what happened (dialers, join 4 free, winmx, millions of sites with free pics, free sites with plugins previously seen only at partnership sites, you name it)
g) Even when I hate dialers and what they represent, I can make a few bucks with them, and then something new will show up, and then another, and so on

Just my €10,000 (yes, I will start to collect for my advice)

http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/cool.gif

Harvey

shane

06-07-2001, 05:35 PM

what i dont like about them is that we get a pothetic 30c min, when they are charging $5 min.
why not charge them $6 and pay $1.30?????

Much0S

06-07-2001, 05:36 PM

Hell, "there are too many movies on TV, so people won't go and rent a film or goto the cinema".


This isn't the same comparision as between TGP's and CJ's.

Basically you would have to compare a Listing to all Divx's out there (usually available before the freaking movie shows over the whole fucking world) versus going to movies... what would you say then? Oeps you would say because after being in business for 20seconds the fucking CIA will kill you (because otherwise hollywood is dead http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif)

Same with porn (also read my other post in other thread) if TGP's were to give lower quality porn, or already seen porn, or softcore porn, or basic stuff that everybody sees (= tv's) we all could make money of hardcore/beastiality/teen/scat/whatever unseen content paysite(= content).

Dialers as they are now are a scam, that's why they're fucking up the industry. Dialers are here for the easy money. Obviously anybody charged $5 (or even more) a minute will never ever ever look for pornsites on the internet again (the poor bastard would probably like have to sell his pc to pay his phone bill http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif).

If dialers were to charge something more real, like $0.25 a minute or so, ppl would actually dial in and enjoy their stay, and stay longer and probably redail a couple of times ...

As for paysites: a lot of paysites have fucked themselves up by scaring the user away (with hidden or no possibility to stop subscribtion, etc).... they should clean up their act and get a good name.

Porn sells good on the internet because of its anonimity. As it currently stands there won't be any other medium for some time to offer same anonimity. If pornsites/paysites were to have a good name, people wouldn't get scared and try some out. Especially if each paysite would focus on one niche.

shane94

06-07-2001, 07:15 PM

Mr poor surfer is running my bandwith bill up to 800 per month now.....do they care no. So why sould i care if some dumb ass pays 5 dollars a minute?

Shane

Jerome

06-07-2001, 07:19 PM

good point shane :P dialers can be viewed as a scam but..also a great money opportunity... now you can see who prefers his surfers to him...personnally i prefer making more cash and surfers lose more than havin less money cuz i dont want them to waste their cash :P

richard

06-07-2001, 08:17 PM

The TV analogy does work i think.

If people dont want to watch your movie, then you need to make a better movie. Some people wont pay for an action movie, while others will.

I read an interesting article that might freak you out, but ISPs are researching into how to stop banner ads on websites, and insert their own banners (perfectly possible from a technology point of view).

All i'm saying, is that instead of complaining about how conversion ratios are crap, and how certain products/sites/programs kill of the industry, we should be looking at how we can evolve our advertising / money making techniques.

quotealex

06-07-2001, 08:58 PM

Dialers are a big scam.

Arthur

06-08-2001, 12:54 AM

The only people who would defend diallers in their current state would be those whose financial interest in them is inversely proportional to their level of ethics.

I agree though that they would be extremely useful if the charges did not approach the equivalent hourly amount that one could engage the services of a high class hooker for.

Tipsy

06-08-2001, 02:00 AM

Whether or not diallers are a scam, to say Mr X will never look at porn again after using one is just plain daft. All it'd do is make Mr X stop downloading and using, a dialler or anything else that tried to use his modem.
Good grief, people may or mat not get ripped off (they are warned and you can't be resposible for other peoples stipidity IMHO) but either way it wont stop them surfing for other types of porn. It may even make them realise that perhaps they should have of flashed the plastic if they want value for money.
Stop them surfing for porn? Good grief no, what a stupid statement. Stop them visiting pay sites? An even more bizzare thing to say. If it stops them downloading un asked for programs that'll harm nobody very much really.
I always considered the porn game something you do to make money or why else would you peddle this shit? Always has struck me as odd when people don't wanna do that. As has been said, what else do you do with shit traffic? I spose you can keep giving them more free pics and band width. Odd hobby though as far as I'm concerned as I certainly can't afford to do so.

snow

06-08-2001, 02:26 AM

This topic is useless..........

harvey

06-08-2001, 02:39 AM

I don't mean not to make money, just do that on a legit way. On my way to be consider a Semi-God, please read these very useful words of wisdom who happens to be... mine! http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005922.html
Of course the way is stopping the free stuff, not scamming the hell out of your surfers. Let's see it in Mc Donald's Burger University way: if you fuck the client, he won't get back anymore!
btw, do you REALLY think the new Internet surfers are idiots? Then you must check your head! Most of them are kids who were learnt UNIX before the A-B-C, the golden age of stupid surfers is getting way behind us, so I guess we ALL must be smart or we'll be history. But since most of us is thinking like "OK, let other webmasters play the How-good-i-am game as I play on my own". That's natural, I won't pay Shane's server bill, so he will search a way to do that (hey Shane, with all your traffic, your pay site and your dialer and crying on lame 800 dollars? http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif But again, it doesn't change the facts about dialers.

Peace

Harvey

PS: What do you think of my new niche, women with lotsa tits. I mean 3 or more tits each! I'm still looking for material to post, no recip required!
http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/cool.gif

harvey

06-08-2001, 02:44 AM

btw, Snow, why is useless to express somebody's opinion? $tandaman started the topic, and people expressed, simple as that, you had zillions of topics praising on dialers, so what's the fuss on hearing the other bell? Sure, you're making loads of money, which is good and I admit I envy you a little on that, but you know the facts probably better than anybody in this board since you're deeply involved. And maybe (just maybe) you'll learn something useless for your biz, who knows?

Peace

Harvey

Arthur

06-08-2001, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by snow:
This topic is useless..........

Now what on earth makes you say that, I wonder... http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

snow

06-08-2001, 05:46 AM

HEY harvey No problem.. I can take structural criitisim anyday..Some goos points just so burned out on the topic..

I like you content ideas.I have implimented the male version..
http://www.culirotti.com/img/trecazzi.jpg

Tipsy

06-08-2001, 12:31 PM

[QUOTW]btw, do you REALLY think the new Internet surfers are idiots? [/QUOTE}
Of course the one's who use diallers are idiots. What an odd statement. The one's who can program in there sleep or whatever aren't usually the ones using the dialler, if they do then yes they are idiots. Idiots come in many shapes and forms - to use something that you're told will cost between $1 and $7 a min makes you rather stupid in my opinion.
It also still makes the point no less valid. Using a dialler on the shit traffic will in no way stop anyone visiting porn sites. As I say, worse case is they'll never download/use a dialler again. To say it'll stop signups elsewhere remain just plain daft.
That's me outa this thread now. I've a feeling it'll just keep going round in circles http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Tipsy

06-08-2001, 12:33 PM

*mutter* No Editing *mutter*

playa

06-08-2001, 05:25 PM

if dialers are considered scam than this whole industry is a scam..

1) mr surfer sign up with this site for 7 day free trial
(don't forget or we will charge you $49.00 a month)

2) Get a free lifetime membership even when you cancel this one
(you gotta read the fine print your actually buying a membership but as a bonus you get another free lifetime membership)

3) free memberships just give send email
(we will just spam the hell out of you and sell you email to others so they can spam you)

4) only 2.95 for a 3 day trial,,
(if you don't cancel we will charge you 29.00 a month)

lets think how many surfers actually know what they are gonna pay for? Remember its our job to get these surfers horny enough that they forget what the hell they are signing up for,,Thats done with our unique style of advertising..

toker

06-08-2001, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by richard:
I read an interesting article that might freak you out, but ISPs are researching into how to stop banner ads on websites, and insert their own banners (perfectly possible from a technology point of view). 

Sorry to break it to you but this is already being done by a few smaller ISP's and is just the tip of the ice for what's ahead. The ISP community is also planning on price hikes to match up with AOL's heavy price increases which in turn costs you the surfer and me.

Basically as I see it ISP's have much control over what surfers do and see banners are not an even issue to think about when they can just block your sites IP or domain at the router level. So go ahead piss on some visitors and see what happens when you piss them off enough to bitch at their ISP..

I have had my ISP fight many of my battles relating to spam and such. Which saves me time and possible legal issues that I feel im paying the ISP to protect me from anyway. http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Now as for the dialer look at 900 phone sex and other 900 entertainment services. They do change by the min most of them however some are fate rate.

But would you say its a scam if you had to pay $6 a min to get your fortune told?

I consider that the biggest scam in the US of mother fucking A. Ms Cleo is the biggest fuckin scam on late night TV but the FCC does not shut down her services or advertising her BS tarot card services.

Same goes for the phone sex.. I bet most people don't realize that according to FCC regulation in the USA its illegal to have phone sex over local Telco carriers lines.

Also same goes for anyone using profanity or explicit language over public frequency bands. However just about every cell phone and portable communication device is on these bands. So guess what anyone can be fined $500 or go to jail for having phone sex.

Now does the ad on TV or anywhere else you might find it tell you that?

Now we all have to think about this phone sex at $1.99 to $8.99 has been around for ages. There are even numbers that charge $40 per call no mater if its 2 mins or 30 mins.

No one has ever bitched about the costs and many are cashing in on the phone sex industry. Its basically the same shit in my view pay by the hour or pay fate rate its the surfers choice to make.

Honestly I say this not because I make money from dialers but because I need to make a living just like the next guy in line.

Im not a porn charity service for homeless people who surf for porn with a sign bearing "will surf for food". Nor do I feel I should give anything to "tom, dick, or harry" we have the local shelters there to feed the addicts when they get hungry and have no money left to buy food. http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

They could also pay for a cheap $20 crackhead whore in the street and get more bang for their buck its their choice how they spend their hard earned money. I feel im providing a service to every wife and surfer that beats off on the net and is guaranteed not to catch HIV from it.

I think most people could agree.. now days beating off in front of the PC could save lives and should be considered a valuable contraceptive!!

Brandon

06-08-2001, 09:59 PM

The concept of dialers was and still is a great idea. However nobody is currently using them to their full potential...somebody mentioned if people were being charged .25/minute then x surfer would be coming back a whole lot more and telling his buddies. That would be a lucrative business that i wouldn't be ashamed of owning. Unfortunately thats not the case. Charging users $3+/minute just to view some pictures is a complete rip-off and eventually there will be enough public uproar to put an end to it.

I've got an interesting question: How many of you think a surfer would still use a dialer knowing BEFOREHAND that they would be charged $3+/minute for that service? Not a damn one of them would touch that dialer. So that means you specialize in the business of deceit. In my opinion you're nothing but con artists praying on surfers lack of information and exploiting it. Simple as that

toker

06-08-2001, 11:26 PM

Actually the dialer clearly states the cost of usage and if you know anything about the costs invloved in paying the access fees you would understand why they cost $3 per min.

If they were so decieving im shure the FTC would have done something to end their use by now. We have many people who bitch about cost but yet most are paying 3x the cost of a real ISP to get AOL with their auto spam features and chat.

So being that AOL is the biggest why should they be charging more then anyone else?

Because they can set any price they want its your choice as a user to pay it or use another provider. Same for dialers whip out the plastic or suffer the inflated costs.

Arthur

06-09-2001, 01:04 AM

Toker,

The whole system preys on the naivety of the surfer; it's understandable they would skip the fine print for the OK button if they weren't aware of the existence of $200 an hour porn sites.

and if you know anything about the costs invloved in paying the access fees you would understand why they cost $3 per min.

not meaning to flame, but can you elaborate on this? I thought diallers were nothing more than another door into a paysite; if so, why aren't paysites charging $200 an hour? (BTW The FTC issued a warning on diallers in April)

neocorp

06-09-2001, 02:35 AM

hey if dialers are scam, then what are phone lines chat ?

like : call 111-1111 and talk to our super models !!

The guy that calls is billed 1$/min, and has no movies, no images, just some talking stuff... like
woman : "oh yes oh yes, you are great..."
man at the phone : "but i did nothing !!"
lmao

Just a thought

Brandon

06-09-2001, 02:48 AM

Are you retarded? Excuse me but I have to ask that since you're trying to build an analogy between phone sex and computer porn dialers. Most every kid in the us knows that 1-900 phone sex lines cost money...or any 1-900 line for that matter. NOT every kid or even adult for that matter knows about computer porn dialers that will rack up hundreds of dollars in charges on their phone bill. The only way a user will find out that they're being charged is if he/she were to read the fine print in that long box of bullshit. Do you read the terms of use whenever you download a freeware program off the net? I highly doubt it and even if you do everybody knows the majority of the people do NOT hence the reason napster implements a feature that forces the user to read the terms. You might as well be arguing that a pile of shit doesn't stink.

Tipsy

06-09-2001, 02:54 AM

I wasn't gonna post again but you do come out with some crap. Run a dialer, if it's not then clear to you before clicking connect that this calls gonna cost a packet you're certainly the one who's 'retarded'. Good grief man, this board may get a lot a flaming but relax and chill out a little. Calling people retarded reflects far more on your maturity (or lack of) than anything else.

neocorp

06-09-2001, 03:05 AM

Yeah brandon, this is my point of you, another thing is depending on the dialer you are using, the terms and conditions can be shorten to the price the dialer will be billed in each country + a "are you over 18" which is finally exactly the same the a sex phone line number...

also not, that all calls don't come from usa, and that in some other countries, phone sex lines are not all at the same price, and that the final price is written in really small prints at the bottom of advertisements, that make the same than for dialers...

anyway, don't call me retarded...
or i ll have to do the same with you (yes i m a bad boy !!!) lmao

Due

06-09-2001, 04:00 AM

Geeeez.
The only reason I see people saying dialers are SCAM is because what they charge (did not read all the posts since I don't see any usefull info to WHY they are scam other than what they charge)
Here is a little comparison.
1: I take my GF out to dinner.
- That cost mayby $200.... Fucking SCAM. That resturant should be closed right?
2: I take a CAP into the city, too lazy to take my bicycle, and my GF is using the car.
- There is 3 KM. (2.2 miles or less) that cost freaking $10. Cap companies are SCAM. CAP companies should be closed right?
Hmmm here is another thought I had. I choosed to pay that myself. Ordered the service myself... so not really SCAM.
Here is another point. Dialers have hold times from mayby 4 minutes to 12 minutes average. IF someone thought it would be free would they stay connected for 4-12 minutes. Or would they stay longer? If people don't know what they are charged how come the hold times whent UP when the price per call was lowered from GIB?
The surfers that use a dialer know what they are charged in 90% of the cases that is why we don't see hold times of 30 minutes but instead see lower holdtimes like 5-10 minutes or so.
So basicly the surfers know what they are being charged therefor it is not a SCAM.
You can compare it with people going to a good resturant and people going to McDonalds. Why should anyone pay $200 for a meal on a resturant when they can get a meal at McDonalds for $10? Mayby because they prefer something better http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif
And if people really thought they where FREE why don't you have 1 call for every 5 downloads instead of 1 call for every 400-3000 downloads, depending on the way you promote it. Would be cool if someone could answer that question http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

Due

06-09-2001, 04:06 AM

Ohhh and just forgot.
The drop in signup ratios has absolutely NOTHING to do with any of the XXX credit card scams that have been exposed within the last year charging for free memberships, overcharges on credit cards and the credit card processors improved fraud control + some sites are nearly impossible to cancel the membership on.

Danyo

06-09-2001, 04:12 AM

sorry guys, but i have to remeber you something. you said "what else to do with shitty traffic?" do you really believe that you can earn cash with sending shitty traffic to a dialer?! hell no! if you really want to earn something, you MUST send the best traffic you have, else no one runs it. for example, if you run a gallerie, and tgp's send you traffic, the traffic is the shittiest u can have. these guys just want pix, now! they won't download any dialer.

and apart from dialers are crap (i really think they are) its a good cash pecuniary resource, but it doesn't make the surfer happy.. (u won't get a bookmark *hehe*)

but like we have often seen, you can set a bookmark yourself on their computer.. and thats REALLY fucked up!

thanks for the attention in reading this http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

ciao
daniel

Arthur

06-09-2001, 04:19 AM

Hi Due,

Dialers have hold times from mayby 4 minutes to 12 minutes average.

The surfers that use a dialer know what they are charged in 90% of the cases


This surprises me. Can I ask where these statistics come from?

Arthur

06-09-2001, 04:36 AM

[SARCASM MODE]

Yeah, guess you pro-dialler guys were right after all. What was I thinking...

http://204.177.92.193/party/venf/index6.jhtml#DL

[/SARCASM MODE]

http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

demoman

06-09-2001, 04:51 AM

I was shocked when a friend of me asked me
if he was paying for anything when I showed
him some free sites..

demoman

06-09-2001, 04:52 AM

A lot of surfers think their phonebill can
be charged without any program...

Due

06-09-2001, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by Arthur:
Hi Due,

This surprises me. Can I ask where these statistics come from?

That is statistics I have gathered myself during the past 1-1½ year using / reselling dialers. So the numbers are based on several 10.000s of minutes wich would give a pretty good overview of the market I would say.
About http://204.177.92.193/party/venf/index6.jhtml#DL
I don't deal with that kind of dialers and also consider them myself to be a SCAM and it won't take long before they get in trouble with FTC I think. I use what I consider to be "real dialer companies" GIB,Niteline,Dialerking and also testing out Telcoweb at the moment

Arthur

06-09-2001, 05:27 AM

[B] That is statistics I have gathered myself during the past 1-1½ year using / reselling dialers.


So a proportion of these average-use times come from a third party? Is it possible that this third party is "cooking the books" for their own financial gain? I don't of course mean to cast aspersions upon the integrity of this fine upstanding industry; as I said, I'm just surprised by these figures.

 I use what I consider to be "real dialer companies" GIB,Niteline,Dialerking and also testing out Telcoweb at the moment

Is that the same Niteline mentioned in this settlement?

http://www.lawpublish.com/feb_98.html

The same Niteline whose dialler comes in an activex-loaded cabinet file that unpacks and installs desktop and startmenu links pointing back at the dialler's installation file, even BEFORE the window explaining the terms and costs is shown?

Sorry, I'm not quite clear on the definition of "real", here.

Due

06-09-2001, 06:12 AM

All Active-X dialers do that when you click accept install in the Active-X menu popup.
Then it installs the dialer, add shortcuts and display terms with cost etc. everytime you run the dialer. That way people won't be confused / forget the price if they had the dialer installed for 1 month. You can easily uninstall all dialers in your windows Add / Remove programs.
As for the niteline link you send, I was unable to connect to the server so I could not see what it was about. But looking at the link it looks like it was from Feb. '98 ?
A lot of things have changed since the last 3 years so please post something usefull and upto date instead of going several years back

Arthur

06-09-2001, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by Due:
[B]All Active-X dialers do that when you click accept install in the Active-X menu popup.[QUOTE]

Not entirely correct. Certain "loose" settings of activex permissions bypass the initial menu pop-up and proceed direct to the dialler's window (it's a signed control, remember). By this time the links are already planted on the desktop and startmenu. How easy it is or isn't to remove these links is irrelevant. Of course, you could counter this by saying if the surfer is dumb enough to have loose settings, then he deserves to have stealth icons placed on his system that give the dialler 2 more chances at being installed. http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[QUOTE]
But looking at the link it looks like it was from Feb. '98 ?
A lot of things have changed since the last 3 years so please post something usefull and upto date instead of going several years back
******************************************
FTC'S FINALIZED SETTLEMENT TARGETS ALLEGED INTERNET FRAUD

FTC has OK'd as final a consent agreement with Beylen Telecom Ltd., NiteLine Media, Inc., and Ron Tan (also known as Roeun Tan), an officer of NiteLine Media, settles charges that the firms falsely advertised that using their special "viewer" would be "free." Also, FTC charged that the firms' computer program surreptitiously disconnected consumers from their local Internet service provider and reconnected their computer modems to the Internet through an international telephone call, all without their knowledge because the program also turned off their modem speakers so that they could not hear the disconnect or the dialing of the international number. FTC alleged that Beylen Telecom Ltd. provided the "viewer" software and other "means and instrumentalities" to defraud consumers. FTC also alleged that both companies caused consumers to pay inflated phone rates to Moldova when their calls actually connected to Canada. The proposed settlement includes the payment of redress funds to AT&T and MCI, which will issue credits to their customers who were billed for the calls, and to FTC, which will issue refunds to customers of other long-distance carriers who were billed for the calls.
******************************************

Well of course things change, Due. This is the philosophy behind the Western prison system. I'm not sure though I'd want a cleaner in my house who has a conviction for theft, though, just to use an analogy http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

Arthur

06-09-2001, 06:57 AM

Made a fucking mess with the quote demarcation, didn't I? Damn this lack of preview!

Might as well make use of the opportunity though.

Dialers have hold times from mayby 4 minutes to 12 minutes average.


Could that be a reflection of the quality of material available via these diallers? http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

richard

06-09-2001, 08:52 AM

Arthur, from which angle are you coming from.

Holdtime are low, because content is poor.

or

Holdtimes are low, because content is so good, it only takes a couple of minutes to satisfy the surfer?

http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

hal

06-09-2001, 09:29 AM

There was a post in this topic about ISPs looking how to replace the banner ads that people see with their own banner ads.

I have only one word to describe this...
Stealing

Although this does not apply so much in the adult biz, many thousands of webmasters rely solely on banner advertising for their income. If the surfers can't see their banners then those surfers are worthless and are just burning up BW, while the ISPs make money from other webmasters' sites.

Can you imagine if all your sponsors were replaced with adverts that you got absolutely no credit for?

toker

06-09-2001, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by hal:
There was a post in this topic about ISPs looking how to replace the banner ads that people see with their own banner ads.

I have only one word to describe this...
Stealing

Uh when why did no one bitch when the banner blocking software was created about a year ago. The issue that ISPs want to work on is destroying banners not creating their own replacement. The truth is how much does this cost the ISP in inflated bandwidth usage by their users.

Shure you pay $2-5 per GB to display all this stuff but the surfers pay far less to the ISP's who we depend on for connectivity. You can pay your host $500 per GB but without the ISP to link a surfer to your page your fucked!

So reconsider the thought of that one and understand what is causing a need for these changes. We need to kill the fuckin banner farms and start makin more less bandwidth intensive sites. Many in the CJ and TGP industry i see have done this already to cut their own costs but in the long run it helps everyone.

Dont think because you have DSL or a T1 that you pay more so you shoud get more because if you didnt know know ISP's are dropping DSL in many areas. Some cant afford it and some are switching to RF and wireless to cut costs. Now we go back to square one affordibility on the surfer and profit for the ISP afterwhich it starts to trickle down to us webmasters.

You fuck them you get fucked point blank!

toker

06-09-2001, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Danyo:
sorry guys, but i have to remeber you something. you said "what else to do with shitty traffic?" do you really believe that you can earn cash with sending shitty traffic to a dialer?! hell no! if you really want to earn something, you MUST send the best traffic you have, else no one runs it. for example, if you run a gallerie, and tgp's send you traffic, the traffic is the shittiest u can have. these guys just want pix, now! they won't download any dialer.

Actually your wrong in theory due to the fact many people cannot get checking accounts or credit cards. These are most often the people who will surf for the free stuff and are most prone to use a dialer.

Then again there are people who only have tons of money but don't have a card because they don't want to waste money on interest and monthly fees. These are the smart ones and I have met people who live by the pay by cash rule and can afford to do so.

Some other might be scared their card might be abused and then the wife might be alerted to their actions. A single chargeback could be more then its worth if it were say a company card linked to their expense account.

Some people find alternate billing methods costly but are willing to pay up to cover their tracks. As you might notice many pay sites don't take money orders or offer cash payments and will loose out on a subscriber who has no other payment method.

As for the dialer market being a scam I can think of much bigger scams I have seen. One time I called one of them physic lines for fun which said $3.99 a min and the first 5 mins were free. Well when the bill came in it way $80 for a 10 min call. which should have been $20 but lucky for me a call to my Telco took care of it and they did not get shit. Now had they charged me only the $20 then maybe I might have played for the service as that's what I expected to pay.

Lets take another service as seen on TV called "internet business in a box" which claims to make you thousands in no time. They say you buy the toolkit basically they are selling you hosting service but claim so much more.

Shure they offer you some reseller links to products available to be resold on the net and give you access to the shopping cart script but every webhost does that.

So what makes this a unique business opportunity?

Its their marketing approach that makes it different but in reality its just webhosting like any other with a kick start.

So calling it a turnkey business and leaving the new venturous entrepreneur with jack shit but a big headache makes it what?

How many people that have never used the net could actually hop online and develop an commerce site in a few days?

These guys advertised quite a bit on TV so they must have sold many of these kits or hosting plans what I would call them.

So do you issue a chargeback because you have a below average IQ and cannot make money from this?

If there were a few people who actually made money from it then is it still a scam?

Does the FTC push them off the networks for advertising false claims?

I can go on and on about "REAL SCAMS" but a dialer is not a scam if webmasters promote it in a fair manner. Its a billing method for a surfer and a tool for webmasters period so lets all drop the BS misconceptions and lies about dialers.

Arthur

06-09-2001, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by richard:
Arthur, from which angle are you coming from.

Holdtime are low, because content is poor.

or

Holdtimes are low, because content is so good, it only takes a couple of minutes to satisfy the surfer?

http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Geez, that's a toughie http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif
Due, could you conduct a quick survey on your customers to establish which it is? http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

WETDOG

06-10-2001, 05:44 PM

I think dialers Suck! The payouts are crappy to what the phone companies make! Plus a lot of dialer resellers are scum as well.

The Gold Rush is over for Dialers.

My 2 cents.

harvey

06-10-2001, 06:37 PM

OK, this is my last
Whether Due has some very logical arguments, and I believe he's convinced on what he's saying, I think these arguments aren't realistic. Not only the dialers are a scam because of what they charge. This is only one reason, but the lesser one. Dialers are a scam because, no matter you've a confusing message telling surfer they will be charged "something" (and most dialers doesn't have this), the procedure to give these dialers to surfer are by lying him. Not only the autodownloads, but you say Mr. Daft "OK, to see these Britney Spears pics (which, btw, everybody has a copyright to use them! http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif), you just need this special piece of software, just download and run it!". This is the best of the scenarios, but still you're screwing Mr. Daft. One question to each and everyone of you: When you install Netscape or Office or whichever program, do you REALLY read the fine print? Or simply press "I Accept"? I don't need to tell the answer.
Another thing: you say that if you go to a restaurant and they charge you $200, that's a scam. Really? Don't you have the cost at the side of the meal? Or even in the front door? Even if not (that would mean you go to very strange places), you get charged 200 and you have the option not to get back anymore. That's ONE time. Now, Mr. Daft can use the dialer for an entire month (or 2 months depending on the country) and then... bang! Hundreds or even thousands of dollars for something that costs $40 in the worst case. Let's do some maths: 6 dollars (and you gotta agree this is not the most expensive dialer) per min. 1 hour connction= $360 This amount on a whole month: $10800. Of course this is not realistic, but is absolutely possible. An d Mr. Daft could have his OWN PAY SITE with this money.
Now, do you REALLY think that all people is way too rich or way too abnormal? I don't. The way I see this is that Mr. Daft was screwed on his "bona fide" and in most cases he'll think "OK, the last time I download or purchase or even click something" (that's 99% of cases, do a research in your numbers) or if the money is too big they will sue somebody (phone company, dialer provider, the Pope, whoever).

Due, I know you're making lotsa dosh, and I tell it again:
IT'S OK IF YOU WANT TO MAKE MONEY THIS WAY,
IT'S YOUR BIZ!!!
But please be a little realistic, and at least you can act like Snow, who I think is far more interested than you in this matter.

The fact is one: Dialers=Scam . You asked for reasons? You got them. Real ones, not word games.

Peace

Harvey

PS: Due, don't take this as a personal attack, because it isn't. It's just that you expressed the opinion I'm rebating, and your post was useful to make a point.

richard

06-10-2001, 06:49 PM

paysites are a rip off

Arthur

06-10-2001, 10:00 PM

Actually, I find it somewhat reassuring that people like Due are trying to reassure themselves, however vainly, that diallers in their current state are an ethical method of making money.

It shows that deep down, in his heart of hearts, he really does have a conscience http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

PS Where do I collect my prize for most posts on a single thread?

Bullet

06-10-2001, 11:02 PM

I agree with arthur, this post does prove that most of us do have a conscience. But to say that people who use dialers will never go searching for porn isn't true.

I remember before I ever knew what a dialer was, I downloaded it, used it, and my next months phone bill was for about 100 dollars more than usual. It wasn't until I actually started using dialers myself that I actually figured out why that one months phone bill was so much more than usual. My guess is that most of the surfers who use them get confused with semi large phone bills like I did.

Those who get the 10,000 dollar phone bills probably won't surf the internet for porn again, but then again, those who get caught in fraud pay sites that over charge, or have the cc numbers hacked won't be likely to buy stuff on the internet either. But that's a small fraction of the surfers, and it grows everyday.

All I'm going to say is that as long as they're legal, I think they're going to be used by a large percentage of webmasters.

harvey

06-11-2001, 04:38 PM

All I'm going to say is that as long as they're legal, I think they're going to be used by a large percentage of webmasters. 

who denies that? Now, if AFC or FBI or Santa Claus finally decide that diallers (at least in the way they are) are illegal, what will you say? Maybe "OK, dialers were scam, but I didn't know anything, and in the meanwhile I made lotsa dosh"? Just to clarify things: as long as they're legal, you can use them. BIG YES. FUCKING AYE. But it doesn't change the fact that they're a scam, and they're planned from the very beginning to be a scam and an easy way to make money. If not, why don't this "oh so legal" dialer companies charge (let's say) $60 a month for access to the material? That's a 100% earning over regular membership fees, and still nothing to be upset about. Instead of that, a dialer company thinks like that: "OK, MR. Dafty will download this dialer and let's pray to the almighty Jesus that he spends lotsa time before realizing what he's doing. Amen!"
This will last until they get sued (they all finally will), but then it's time to dissapear off the face of the earth, don'tya think?
A last question: Who can assure 100% that what you're downloading is
A) a dialer
B) nothing else but a dialer

Think about it

Harvey
lately known as the Che Guevarra of the board