possible CJ III ?

[playa]

ok,,

here is what i am suggesting......
first we got CJ II to kick off great...

since the exit biz is getting a hard time again....how about trading with

1 small entrance console and no exits?


how much success can this have?

[richard]

I would say you have no chance of getting this implemented. I personally have been pushing for what is now CJ2 for coming up to a year, and its only now that it has actually taken off.

No enter pop is such a fundamental CJ2 rule.

What i don't understand though, is your logic.

What does the exit sponsor situation have to do with anything?

You dont HAVE to have any popups on your site! Just because you have to remove your exit popup, why should you feel its your right to add an enter popup to compensate? esp since the enter popup is to be used for trading with?

??

You've lost me.


Rich.

long live CJ2!

[Namejs]

Richard what the fuck are you talking about? If you would even run a CJ 2 seriously you can start bullshitting.

I think playas Idea is great. To be honest CJ 2 sucks from my point of view.

I got my site hardly up to 15k now and the only thing I have to say is that it is much harder to keep trades going.

The productivity is not a bit better then with the old CJ and so are the conversion rates.

Do I have bookmarkers? NO! More bandwith per hit? Yes! Because I have now some thumbs on it which I update weekly.

So what the fuck are the advantages of CJ2?
Except DanS, Due maybe Nick it seems that nobody has big sites. Do they earn money with it? Who knows. But I know that a lot of people don't.

I think that I will switch to a celebrity cj now because these guys are not so narrow-minded like some of the CJ2 webmasters.

Were are these guys now? Snow how is Pornflake doing? You've started to cheat CJ2 after one week!!! Richard? where is your site? and a lot of others I don't need to mention.

This whole thing became a docmatic cruisade and the old CJ died because of this. Everybody followed the guys who started the CJ2 discussion like stupid lemmings.

Smitty would you rather keep your old CJ or do a CJ2? Are you forced to switch to CJ2 because you loose slowly all your trades?

Lets face it - I don't want to please any user. Fuck userfriendly. I don't want to trade with any TGP because their traffic sucks I even hate TGP's since they are destroying the industry.

If somebody like playa who I do respect asks carefully about a new option in CJ business then I don't see the reason to blame him for that. I bet he simply didn't have the guts to ask for more.

I say that it makes absolutely sence to have an entry and an exit console. No problem with that.

Well nobody needs a console hell with thousands of layers and no productivity but the middle way is often the more resonable one.

[Mr Exotic]

Man CJ2 is great, its the easiest fucking thing there is to do, way the fuck easier than console hell shit. You just dont try hard enough, or you havent found something that works yet. The best I could ever get my CJ outclicks was 95-105%, on my CJ2 site I have over 130% outclicks and thats deducting the content clicks, just because you havent found something that works dont go crying about how your outclicks suck and lobby to get console hells back, there are plenty of console hells left to trade with, if thats what you wanna so then do it, but dont go trying to destroy CJ2, its the best thing to happen in a long time.

[Due]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
This whole thing became a docmatic cruisade and the old CJ died because of this. Everybody followed the guys who started the CJ2 discussion like stupid lemmings.
</font>
Actually CJ whent back to how it was. It did not kill "the old" CJ.
The small console on entrance was what killed "the old" CJ.
If you can't get your site higher than 15K then it is because there is something wrong with your design and / or trades. If you add a small enter console then you will get a quick boost and then drop again. Then what? A small Exit?
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
This whole thing became a docmatic cruisade and the old CJ died because of this. Everybody followed the guys who started the CJ2 discussion like stupid lemmings.
</font>
Or mayby it was when the lemmings followed the guys that said "lets add a small enter console" the old CJ died?

[Namejs]

who says that my outgoing clicks are not fine? I say that I don't make so much money anymore

[richard]

Namejs, perhaps you can enlighten me as to why the exit sponsor situation should warrant us all adding an enter popup?

The only thing i have come up with, is that because you cannot make money with your exit using an exit broker, Playa has concluded that you cannot make money with anything on exit.

Hence, you need more sponsor links on the main page, which a popup would compensate.

?

Namejs, tell us exactly why you feel playa's idea is so great.

Do you feel that with an enter pop, you could trade more traffic, and have a site with more hits to it? but do you feel that this would make you more money, which at the end of the day is the bottom line?

(and how do you feel you would make more money)

Richard.

[richard]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">who says that my outgoing clicks are not fine? I say that I don't make so much money anymore</font>

you did.

I got my site hardly up to 15k now and the only thing I have to say is that it is much harder to keep trades going.

Your solution to this would be to add an enter popup, hence increasing your clicks.

[Namejs]

correct. I wouldn't have got my CJ up to 15k if I would have a big outclick problem, but there is one, you're right.

And yes I believe that a console would increase the traffic and if I increase the traffic I make more money, maybe http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Sure I don't know it exactly but the reason why everybody started the CJ2 discussion was to raise the convertion rates of the sponsors. And I can't see that at all.

If I simply compare my old cj with the cj2 the only thing I can say that I made more money with it.

I am also asking for the experiences of others because it really seems that some do well and some don't. And there are also big names who were really successful with the old CJ and are not able to earn a dime nowadays. How is that possible?

And what I don't like either Richard if you give statements about the CJ2 whithout even trying to have one. I would like to see how successful you would be.

[richard]

http://www.qbabes.com

online with 10 trades (to make ucj work) live now. I've been doing some stuff i considered more important than getting that site up, which i'll show you tommorow.

been getting about 1000 hits a day according to ucj, and not done anything but added 10 trades to it. I've made 1 signup from it, and can see many favicon.ico calls in my error logs. $30 for about 3gigs in bandwidth is not too bad.

I can take the fact that i have not put any effort into a cj site since the CJ2 sites have taken off, as a criticism, but one that i soon hope to put to rest.

Playa, i wasn't getting narky with you mate, just do not understand your post.

Enter popups would be a giant step backward in my book, when a surfer hits my site, i want them to take their time, relax, feel at ease, and click my links. If they get a popup straight away, and if they click it and get bullshit, they are not going to feel that way when they see my main page.

just my 2p http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Rich.

[Namejs]

But what else then getting bullshit should a user get after he clicks?

Isn't it the princip of a cj to bullshit the user so long that he gets annoyed by that and uses a sponsor?

[lynch1000s]

Who says that you have to put an exit console to an exit console broker. You can just send all of that traffic to a banner farm or to another site of yours, or a site you're trading with.

Anyways, small entrance consoles aren't that effective because I think you'd be better off just sticking a regular banner at the top of your site, or if you already have one, just stick two.

Also, you can just have an auto download for your dialer, which would also work better.

Oh well, just my opinion, I don't run cj's anyways.

[lynch1000s]

And also, aren't most exit brokers just resellers??? I know that some are, and I'm sure that's why they go out of businesses so easily. But anyways, if exit brokers are making any money whatsoever, you'd be better of sending that traffic to a sponsor.

[Dan S]

Hmm, the enter console discussion again.

Lets face it, a console on enter would not bring more traffic.

Its pretty simple.
The traffic circle just only have a certain amount of traffic: the cake.
Every single site only gets a certain slice of that cake.
Adding a console on enter would not make the cake bigger at all.
It would give the site using an enter console a click boost of about 30% which would let it grow very fast.

Now think: the cake is not getting bigger!
Somebody else is going to lose the CLICKS the enter console is getting.

Every click that the enter console gets will be lost somewhere else on a MAINPAGE.

&lt;B&gt;
The point is: You only get a certain average amount of clicks on blind links from the average surfer before he starts over his search for free porn. You will not increase this average "blind link clicks per surfer" by adding a console. In fact you will decrease it.&lt;/B&gt;

You need to realize that allowing an enter console or a trade exit console is starting the "evil circle" again.

--&gt; Your enter console is pulling 30% of clicks that were supposed to be clicks on your trade partners main page

--&gt; These clicks are lost for your trade partners

--&gt; Trade partners need to add a console to catch up with the lost clicks on your enter

--&gt; All traders have an enter console now

--&gt; Same situation like before, because everybody has an enter console now the productivity is back to where it was BEFORE you added the enter console

--&gt; Somebody is asking a small exit console (it would really help alot to increase prod again)

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Do you see the point?
There is only THAT amount of clicks we can get out of a surfer. Adding consoles of any kind will not increase the TOTAL clicks on trade links if you see the whole picture.
I am 100% sure it will decrease the clicks for the whole CJ2 traffic circle.


Namjis,
since I am the one always defended NOT to have any trade consoles in CJ2 I feel you meant me with "narrow-minded like some of the CJ2 webmasters".

I try to look at the whole picture.
I would call that far from beeing narrow minded.
Adding a console and thinking it will improve the overall clicks is much closer to a narrow mind http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Anyway, thats like I see it. Take it or leave it.
For me there is no other option, I cant trade with sites that popup anything on enter.
Because it would be my job to compensate the 30% clicks that your enter console gets. Which is impossible http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/frown.gif


I hope this makes atleast a little sense....

Dan

[Namejs]

indeed DanS you don't get more clicks in general because of an entry console but isn't it easier to get a design a site with a good outgoing rate with an entry console???

So tell me what would be the difference or why is an entry console bad then?

I think that everybody agrees in the fact that it is very hard to develop a design that has good outgoing clicks.

My site is growing so I can't complain but just follow the thought that new webmasters who join the CJ2 and let the cake growing with their fresh traffic have a hard time to design a good site. So they get disappointed.

Beside that nobody was able to explain me how it is possible that even formaly "big" webmasters have problems to earn money with their CJ2 sites? So if nothing changed, especially not the convertions why did we start this at all?

Again - the last thing I intend to do is to serve the user. I want his money nothing else.

But for example why is it forbitten to have at least an entry console with a sponsor on it if I am able to handle my outgoing clicks.

Some even refused to trade with me if I have the allowed java alert for my dialer. Now that is what I call narrow minded.

[Dan S]

The enter console is bad because it is switching the surfer the "close all annoying windows mode" much faster: and the circle as a whole will lose clicks.

It will definately be NOT easier to build a design with high out clicks with enter console if everybody else is using also an enter console.

Now what "good thing" would the enter console exactly do?

Dan

[Namejs]

well that's where our oppinions devide. I think that it is easier to build a site with higher outclick rates with an entry console. That will help newbies a lot.

I agree about the close window mode but only if you really start a console hell and not with one entry console. Nobody needs to follow the pornflake example.

And tell me Dan beside the fact that I would like to use an entry console for trades why it is not allowed to use it even for sponsor advertisement? We are loosing here an opportunity to make money. This should be my business since I have to deal with the outgoing clicks then.

[Niki]

How about trade on exit?
think, it's much better then 1 small entrance console and no exits

and Namejs is right, CJII is way too much surfer friendly ...

[richard]

Its about design, but not exclusively remember.

Where you get your traffic from is also important. I don't mean from what sites, but i mean from what descriptive links.

If i send you (your site being a "Teen" site for example) a surfer from a "dirty white slut getting a face full of cum from a black stallion" link, they ain't going to be too happy.

UCJ has a great, little praised feature in its referers part - look at your uniq/raw OUTGOING.

Take a trade i have:

RAW in: 190
RAW out: 218

U in: 183
U out: 110


that tells me 73 surfers did not click on anything. (40% of my in traffic from that trade was worthless)

What might look like a nice site to you, does not look good to a surfer looking for interacial cumshots.

[lynch1000s]

Yeah, but being surfer friendly is what you want. Because it's the surfer who you are trying to make the money from.

[richard]

this could be more important than i first thought.

I submitted a gallery to thumbzilla. From it i got 77 uniques in from a link at the bottom of the gallery.

I got 77 uniques out (ie they all clicked).

BUT, i got 246 RAW out.

On average, a surfer from a TGP, who clicked to my site from another link on a gallery, clicked 3.2 times on my site.

put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Namejs]

beside that this leads to a different discussion

well my friend, I can't complain about the outgoing click rate I get with my fresh traffic either but a lot of trades have a bad productivity. Not all but a lot and I believe that with an entry console I have simply more options to get these clicks too.

I really don't talk about a layer hell but too clean is simply not effective, for me.

And I still have no replies what are the experiences of other webmasters. Sure DanS has obviously no problem with that otherwise he wouldn't be so big but how about others?

And also no reply why I can't use a console to advertise my sponsor or why are forced downloads not allowed?

We should get the user as fast as possible to spend his money and not to surf relaxed through our sites.

[Niki]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by richard:
If i send you (your site being a "Teen" site for example) a surfer from a "dirty white slut getting a face full of cum from a black stallion" link, they ain't going to be too happy.</font>

yea, that's why I've started only "niche" CJII sites like realolder.com or chooseyourporno.com and I trade with another niche sites only, but I'm still for trade on exit http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Zyber]

Niki I disagree with you that we are too user friendly. The old way of doing CJ is hurting the reputation of the Circle Jerking business. And I don't want that the CJ2 business get destroyed on a long term.
CJ2 is hard work but it pays off fine. That's at least how I have experienced it.

CJ2 Rocks!

/Zyber
55300027

[Namejs]

do I need a reputation? I doubt it, just because TGPs don't like us? I give a damn. Paysites? Our reputation is obviously good enough that exit sponsors can sell this traffic. And most Sponsors accept CJ sites. Let's face it we won't be able to get this traffic more worthy just because we are trying to give the surfer a nice time while he browses through the sites. At least I would like to have my adverisement entry console.

[Niki]

absolutely agree with Namejs

[Pinox]

Yeah, where to go with all that enormously ammount of traffic..

When my site whas a tiegiepie i get hardly 10 users a day. Now i turned it into a SieJieToe site its already 20 users a day... wow thats a growth of 100%.
I make even bigger money with it then when it whas a tiegiepie with enterconsole. never got a signup with that t g p stuff, but now... already one signup... and that from join4free... on exit...

amen..
So siejietoe

[Due]

Namejs&gt;
Obviously you did not read Dan S post about the cake very well since you still don't see the problem.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">well that's where our oppinions devide. I think that it is easier to build a site with higher outclick rates with an entry console
</font>
Did anyone tell you it would be easy?
If you need a enter console so bad then why not add it. Even though your site is not a CJ2 site then you can still say you only wish to trade with clean sites without tons of consoles.
No one is forcing you to do anything you don't like.
It is your choice and your choice only if you wish to run a CJ, CJ2, TGP, Link list or whatever.
But there will always be some rules that should not be broken.
There is TONS of ways to make money on a CJ2 site and it is MUCH more proffitable than normal CJ sites.
My income has more than doubled since I started running CJ2 sites (but now without using dialers)
One thing to remember though is that even though your traffic has a lot higher quality it will not sell memberships just by placing a banner on the site. The higher quality give room for more creativity that will generate the sales.
Creativity is also what give a good outclick

[Pinox]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pinox:

So siejietoe </font>

???? Hmm, I forgot my prozac.. sorry....

[Jer]

Hello guys. I have about 15k enter traffic (blur window) from my toplist, fresh visitors. I was sending them to my CJ2, and they click like crazies, but I wasn't making good money.

The best result I had with an layout (and I tried many) was 80% (with IN hits from trades, not with my toplist traffic). Everyday the same or less unique hits. I think I'll give up this CJ business :-(

How do you guys grow up with almost no fresh traffic ?

Maybe non-adult is the key. (I have non-adult toplists also, but I'm working on a entertainment site right now).

[Dan S]

Basicly I do not understand the discussion about adding consoles at all.

A trading console will give your site only an advantage over your trade partners if they don`t use one. If they all use some NO advantage. So for what do we need it.

An ad console is a completely different thing. I wouldnt trade with anything on enter (also no javascript alerts). Simply because the surfer will sooner close everything if he gets 2 new windows with every click they make on my page.

Now tell me whats the advantage of an ad console loading in front of your main page over an 1st class ad placement on your mainpage?

Do you think your enter console will get better sales than a half page ad on your main page? Answer is NO.

Do you think it wont "steal" as much outclicks from you if its loaded in a console? Answer NO.


Also: the topic started off with "trades on enter console" to increase productivity.

Now it turns to "ad console".
Give me a break, if you are not able to get enough clicks with your main page, adding an ad console on enter will kill your site within 24 hrs.

!!!Put that ad on top of your page!!!
It will sell better than a popup + people that start clicking will propably click more, because your site looks like a content page.


Dan

[playa]

ok,,,,,i see i think i opened up a big can of worms,,,

hehe,,,,,just a thought guys...

maybe a blured entrance console sounds good though..

dan and richard you guys gave very good point of views..

[Ron]

Part of this business is finding what works for you. The fact that i have worked a free hosting service into my CJ2 site is paying off in ways i haven't even begun to understand yet.

The planning process never ends, i'm allready working out a AVS type deal using my free hosting members pages. They get traffic from the deal, and i get $10/sign up. Kinda scketchy atm, but i'll work it out some day http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif

One thing i have learned these past years is to never focus on one thing too long "unless it's working for you". I'm always trying to new ideas.

But i agree with you all, design is EVERYTHING! Even the color combinations can affect your out clicks. Look at your site the way casino's look at their clients.

[Dan S]

Btw,
I am far from having always the moster CJ2 layout that gets enough clicks to grow....

I have the same problem like anyone else.
I see my clicks droping after a while...and sometimes it takes me 2 weeks to turn it around and get my sites back on track.


Even if a console would help me right then, it would help me anymore 2 weeks later.

I am 100% sure that an enter/exit trade console is not needed and wouldnt do anything good.

Dan

[Doctor Dre]

Check out ... everybody is freaking out and I don't understand why http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

rich posted his idea ... not bad . For my opinion I think it will kill the productivity (make the surfer close all windows) more than make it better .

What I think that would work good is :
No popups ... and at least 25 % real content =p

the surfer would surf hours on the site lol !

[playa]

hmm dr you might got something with....

but is that almost like a TGP