I'm Done Trading

[Anthony]

I'm absolutely fucking over with trading with new sites coming onboard.

I've gone from over 45k uniques a day down to less than 20k. Why? Bullshit trades, fuckers opening my site in consoles, etc.

How fucking long will I have to hear I'm a Newbie and I made a mistake? The way I see this is that we are fucking the guys who use ES and Linxx with all this bullshit Newbie mistakes or whatever. They paid money for it, and are that much more careful when it comes to trades and taking care of their trades. How many times in the past 2 weeks have I taken in a trade and sent traffic and then told, Oh, I'm sorry, my script is not working right. FUCK THAT!

If you know me outside of the CJ circles, you know I"m the most helpful guy out there, but we are talking money here, traffic is money. Bottom line, you don't fuck with three things in my life:
1. My family
2. My Life
3. My money

Let's get all this shit fixed, or we're all gonna go down hill from here.

Remember, the big sites don't have to trade with us, not one bit.

Nuff said.

[donger]

yeah, i hear you mang. I don't really consider either of my sites to be "big trade sites" or anything, but i get like 3-4 new trade requests daily, all from UCJ sites with 0 traffic and pages that look like they took about 3 minutes to build. I add these sites just to be fair, but most all of them never send in more than about 10 hits, then they msg me back asking me why i'm not sending them more traffic :P

tim: have you ever thought about charging a nominal fee for UCJ? Something like $20 or $50, just to basically weed out people that aren't serious about running a site like this. I think one of the main reasons ES and linkX sites do so well is that the persons running the sites spent good money for the script, so they're definitely serious about running their site and making it work. With a freely available script, anybody with an email address can start up a site, and this biz is getting flooded with clueless newbies and desperate cheaters. I'm not blaming UCJ, i'm all for GNU type stuff and freeware, but dayum, it's getting pretty hairy. :)

[moose]

yeeeehhaaaaa,
i deleted 5 sites yesterday who signed up with me who didnt send shit and got like a 2000% return from me
thats all i can say.......
I got your back Anthony :)

High 5 Donger :)

[Anthony]

Talked to Tim about this, and he makes a viable point.

It took me less than 3 days to go from 20 404 Redirects to 6k in uniques. I promoted it, I burnt the bandwidth to get it there. 10k took about a week. If someone is serious about this venture in traffic trading they can do that and better. Hell, some of the ES guys did 40k in one week.

Tim suggested we not trade with any new sites that do not have over 10k traffic. That's easily verified with counters and what not. Plus, you remember Moose, when my traffic was under 10k I was just recirculating my traffic with those sending it. Bad trades all around.

I want to succeed in this venture. I have friends who brought me in and I've brought my friends in. I've made a shitload of new friends and associates doing this as well. Tim gave away the script so that no one would have an unfair chance, but now, it just seems everyone takes that script and uses it to take advantage of those already here. Not to mention, when's the last time you saw a reciprocal link back to Tim's site in exchange of using his script?

Like I said to Juggler what seems like a lifetime ago, let's play it right and fair, and we'll all make money.

Re's

Anthony

[yellofello]

i probably shouldnt be posting in this thread since i definitely havent been around this for as long as some of you have... but i think that maybe posting not only a rating scale, but also traffic scale would be helpful when setting up that scoring system of c/j sites. being the cheap a$$ that i am, i probably would have had to contemplate a while just to spend that $30 for the ucj script (if tim had been charging.. but then again my first content cd was $7.50 :oP), but right now i think im doing pretty decent. all im trying to say is to give some people a chance. signing up 3 new accounts a day might be overkill, but im sure theres a way to filter sites out.

whoevers in charge of setting up that table for the site scoring, if they were interested in listing traffic numbers (like the average # for the last week or something, should only take 1-2 mins for each site to snag that from s/tracker), and wanted some help with it my info is:
ICQ # 45352604 asian_booty_@hotmail.com

i'd be more than happy to give something back since ive gotten a lot of help just getting up to that first rung on the ladder :)

~yellofello

[shane]

The thing that pisses me off are the ones who
link in exit windows, or put img src on their page and say "Im a newbie, I diddnt know i was cheating". Fuck them.

[Anthony]

Hard to believe it sometimes Shane, but for crying out loud, it's just on our pages, don't open my link in a new window, don't cheat me, hell read these boards and you'll get an idea what is right and what is not. Worse come to worse, ask.

Ahhhh, fuck it. I'm gonna build on my trades now and work with people I know and trust.

Re's

[WETDOG]

it is all a pain in the ass
no matter how you look at it!
if it were easy there were-would be
10,000 trade sites and there is only a
few hundred..so it could be worst!

Wetdog

[Sticks]

security seems lax on many scripts. If script can be fucked by <img src="shitscript"> or the same in javascript or running a cgi script to hack a topsite or traffic trade, then they aren't worth shit. Why should we have to check each and every referrer. If you are expecting a +50% return on your traffic - IF everyone plays by the rules, then I am not surprised that it only takes a couple of bad trades to fuck up the whole thing. Do you guys really understand the scripts are running? If you don't, you will be fucked.

[xempire]

That's a very valid point Anthony. I think before we trade, all of us should ask, "how much traffic do you have?".

I would much rather NOT trade with people who wouldn't even spend $20 on a script. Many of us do this for a living and we take it seriously. Offering something totally free brings in a whole new crowd. It's the same with people on free hosts. There is no way I'll ever trade with one. Would good could possibly come from it?

That's one of the main reasons you will never see me giving away ES/the Scorpion. I have a responsibility to my webmasters but also the industry as a whole. I only sold ES to a certain amount of people so I wouldn't flood the market.


My recommendation would be to just charge $100 for it Tim and Phun. You could make a little money and also it would, like Anthony said, weed out all the crap.

[NickD]

I totally agree with xempire but personally I think Tim should charge more than 100$. I dont see anyway why we would want to see more webmasters using the script. I think I got more than 40+ sites in my database that use this script now. If this script works, why dont charge like 500$+. If people thinks it is not worth it then good they wont buy it. Because if it continues like that there will be like 200+ webmasters using the script and that would be totally devastating....

[Anthony]

Valid Points NickD and Xempire.

I can't speak for Rimmer or Phun, but I believe they see what is happening and are taking steps to correct it.

I've been with Rimmer/Tim from the beginning when he gave it out for free and trust his judgement. Phun has been a ton of help and knows what is happening witht he cheating and BS.

Others will come to the point, like me, to not trade anymore unless that person can be vouched for by another good honest trader.

Re's

[speed]

I partly agree with all you guys..
but i think you should all remember, you were all *newbies* once, so i think you should give everybody a fair go..

[Ride]

I see your point about newbies, but than newbies should not try working with complicated scripts, a lot the people that circle jerk now, use to not use scripts just links to the other sites. I have seen a lot of very good CJ sites that don't even use scripts (ultradonkey.com), by charging for a script, it will make someone learn about the business and take the steps to make money so they can purchase a script. That is how I look at it.

[SexSites]

Well, I am fairly new myself admitedly (atleast to CJ scripts) been doing sites for 2 years...

I do have a few comments though. I wrote my own script based on things I read people compaining about on these boards. (http://www.sex-sites.com/adduser.asp) It took me time and energy. Consequently, I have worked hard to make my trades work. I have gone from nothing to ~20K unique daily in 1 week... not very hard to do..

So, I figure if someone can't afford to pay a few bucks ($100 or even $500), they really shouldn't be doing this. It is a joke to make $100-$500 bucks back. (should be able to make a lot more than that)

The only reason the newer users aren't doing that is because they see no reason to.

They got it for free.. If they screw up and it doesn't work, what did it cost them?

[Anthony]

Speed,

Money is involved here. If a Newbie makes a mistake he doesn't just affect his money, he affects mine, yours, and 60 others in my database.

I was new less than 2 months ago. I cared about my trades, and knew I was coming into something new and that I was playing with other people's money (traffic).

Now did I do that cause I want to keep my reputation clean? Absolutely. That's all we have.

-----------
SexySpaces,

Makes sense, doesn't it?

Re's

[Juggler]

100% Right Anthony the day before yesterday I made a mistake which was 100% cheating I am not going to say what I did as i do not want to give ideas to anyone out there

But the reson it happened was I was trying to do to many things at once this is fine when you are writing a page for your self but when you do things that invole others you really need to take more time and make sure you get EVERYTHING right.

The other person involved has not called me a cheat publicly but if he did he would IMHO be 100% in the right doing so. Even thoufgh what I did WAS a mistake is makes no difference what I did could of cause harm to his site and I deserve anything I get from it.

I am a newbie is a crap excuse learn but do not learn at others expense I for one am going to start taking a LOT more time with anything that involes others.

I personally think if you make a mistake be prepared ot pay the cost of course you have the right to defend yourself after but lets slow down take some time and minmise the mistakes and work togeather.

To the person involved if you read this I am sorry and I assure you it was 100% a mistake

happy trading Juggler

[speed]

i'm not supporting any cheaters..
i say screw all the cheaters who use the excuse "i'm a newbie"
i mean there are honest people out there who wanna start a good honest website
and we should give the oppurnity to trade with us. Somebody above wrote something abotu not trading with sites that get less than 10k. how people supposed to get to 10k if none of you *expeerienced* people will trade with them..

[donger]

speed..
maybe by trading with other smaller sites.. there's a million of them, they're all desperate for trades, why don't they just trade with each other and grow as a group? I have so many dead trades in my database it's pathetic.. some haven't even sent in a hit in the last week :P

[Anthony]

Guys,

I was among the first group to get the UCJ and trade with you all.

I burned the bandwidth, submitting my feeder sites to get my traffic up to 10k in the first week. If I can do it, why can't others? My buddy Bishop just started his CJ site 2 days ago. His first day he did 3k. From his own generated traffic. Which, btw, is mostly SE traffic. Very lucrative and precious traffic, but that's what he had and he swore he would not be in negatives to anyone and wants to make his CJ a success. Some of you are already tradig with him. Who knows, he might be one of those Newbies that does 100k in his first month, but he's got a reputation with everyone he works with as being honest and straight. That's the bottom line. I don't know some of the new webmasters coming into the CJ scene. Reputation helps eases some concerns. Any of you had any problems with Anthony of NetPond when he decided to trade traffic? No, cause I have a reputation to uphold, and it has to be crystal clear and clean.

Ref, miskates... I made a serious one to Anthony of Daily Toons. Not a traffic one, but a serious one nonetheless. I did the right thing and told him when I found out and would accept any repercussions for what I did. Because of that, of what happened after I confessed my "Newbie" mistake, AnthonyRaff and me, I believe have a better business relationship. I'm not saying everyone should do it cause I did it, but I"m saying everyone should fess up to their mistakes cause it's the right thing to do. Does it mar my reputation? If anything, I think it helped it cause I don't hide my mistakes. I fucked up and admitted it.

If you can't send me hits back and I send you over 500 and get 15, then it's time to say, whoa! Can you slow down and let me catch up, instead of just taking all my traffic and giving me back 0 Shit!

Remember, traffic is money in the CJ forumn we play. I'm making good money from my site, but that depends on the amount of hits I get and the quality.

Btw, thanks all of you for responding and giving me back your feedback. I greatly appreciate it.

[mortanius]

I busted my ass on my non script tgp, and now its doing 30k, and thats what i dumped into my new script site. And newbie mistakes do screw us experienced people over. I make most my money selling traffic pre paid, and if sum dumbass newbie fucks my site and i cant deliver that traffic that i promissed, it fucks my rep, money, and makes me look damn stupid.

[donger]

damn skippy..
why don't you guys with the free script limit its distribution? If the market gets flooded with these lame sites (not that everybody didn't start somewhere.. that's not what i'm talking about. i mean the guy who spent more time unzipping UCJ than he did building his site) one of two things is going to happen. A) we're all going to lose traffic as it gets dumped off on crappy sites that don't send it back or B) nobody is going to want to trade with anybody new any more. I myself have already fallen into the latter category. If somebody getting 30 hits an hour approaches me and wants to trade traffic, i turn them down. what are they going to trade? I'm just going to waste hits by even adding them to the database. I would imagine that it's especially hard for ES guys, b/c each site automatically receives 10 hits on reset. I would hope that you can turn this feature on/off per site (i don't run ES, so i have no idea)

anyways, what it [my opinion] boils down to is this; phun, tim.. the world doesn't need any more incompetent script sites. Limit the distribution of your scripts to either a) someone who has a manual trade site that wants to automate it with a script and already has his own traffic to toss around or b) people you know and trust to run a decent website. Giving something out like this to anybody who asks is eventually going to hurt everyone. If all these new free script sites continue getting a bad rep, honest and hardworking webmasters running these scripts will have no way to get their sites off the ground b/c nobody will want to trade with them.
just my (longwinded) 2 cents :)

laters!
donger

[Jaz]

Anthony I couldnt of said it better myself!

God this is so true its not even f*%king funny...

I used to be the biggest advocate of trading with newbies..I wanted all the newbies but since the recent flood of total shit UCJ sites i have had to rethink this...I cant even beging to say how many 1000's of hits i have wasted this week alone.

As far a cheating goes if you cheat me you will pay. One way or another..
My favorite saying is
An eye for a limb..
You attempt to screw me , ill beat you into the ground. Im sick of it...

[taz44]

anyone who cares to listen,

[taz44]

I have a great idea!!
Why don't we ban all newbie webmasters so the older ones make all the $$$! Riiiiight..
When i first started 2 years ago i probably learned all the hard lessons there was to learn. It all started when i responded to an add in the paper that said "own you own adult site". I of course was intrigued, and i responded and was led to believe by some sleezeball designers that i needed to have a free site and a pay site. After shelling out over $8,500 and waiting 3.5 mos. to "almost-never did" complete it, i was told that now all you have to do get traffic!! Great i thought, but when i asked them how to do that they blew me off and told me it was my problem. The moral - newbies get screwed just as much as veterans. I took a year off but found that i enjoyed being online so i started again, thats when i found the circle jerk scripts. (cool idea i didn't know about till now) I do take full respondsibility for the failure of the sites, but on the other hand i still hold a grudge against people who take advantage or don't help others when they very easily could. Their excuse-i'm sick of newbies, they dont know anything, they can't trade me 50,000 unq a day, i'm wasting my hard earned money on them!! I wish i could come on here everyday and bitch about all the customers that screwed me and did't pay me, but i don't, anyone know why? cuz thats business! while online i may not be that successful yet, i know from my other business that took 12 yrs. to build and has sales over 1.5 mil a year, that you don't grow and succeed by complaining every day about things you can't control. There are cheaters out there and f..k them, but to those others who maybe struggling and make their share of mistakes, remember to think long term and do to others what you would want yourself. Right now i run my site completely free without any sponsors. I do that because i want my partners to get all the traffic they deserve, because its more important to grow today and get paid tomorrow. So if there is "anyone" who wants to grow as a group and learn together then drop me a line. I think i've said enough, this isn't a debate this is just one crazy mans opinion. Sorry its so long...

[moose]

Sorry TAZ ,this is how i pay my bills,i am more than happy to teach someone how to do this and i do it everyday, but to go as far as giving them money (traffic) for nothing in return, never gonna happen in my world.Unless you buy me a beer :) hehe

This is about the third time i have seen on this board someone complaining about not being treated equal (newbies) well im a fucking newbie and work my ass off to get traffic and do not expect any one to give it to me

late

[taz44]

moose,
i completely understand your point, but remember everyone can't do this full time so there is always a dropoff in knowledge and time spent on development. While you seem to be successful working hard, someone else maybe working just as hard but not as smart. I believe in hard work too, but the reality is everyone else may not.

steve

[Smitty]

I am sick of UJC sites, PERIOD. 90% of the guys running those sites dont have the first clue about how the business works. I saw a message posted here, quoting, "afterall, we were all newbies once.". True, BUT: When I brought up my first internet site, a couple of years ago, I had about $700.00 to my name. At the time, that was a lot of money to me. I invested most of it into buying domains, paying for hosting, and getting my site hits. If somebody cannot afford $500.00, like Nick said, then we do not want them around here.

Donger: Your statement was so true. I have that happen 100 times a day, where these naive little ujc site webmasters come up to me, after sending 10 hits in the last week, and ask, "why arnt you sending me any hits back?" Its really funny.

Anyway, UJC sites are ruining the business. I have 5 es sites, and I have payed thousands upon thousands of $$$ for the script, and i do not regret doing it one bit.

[Anth0ny]

I was just looking back at how far we did NOT go since November 1999.

Fucking sad indeed.

[Crysty]

Too much words written for a simple idea exposed all over this page
Ok , so you (all) are against free ucj sites?
But you need traffic, right ?
So, it's simple !
Add any trade before the webmaster has proven he has at least 10k, and after that, watch carefuly the trade for 2-3 days.
Running www.beautynude.com (http://www.beautynude.com) with free ver. gaved me wings because I need money. Everybody does, but, remember, not all of webmasters are from US or Canada, and 100$ for you is not the same thing as paying 100$ for myself. I am from Romania and I (still) work 8hr/day for 250$/month. And I work only because I have free internet access, which is a treasure for me. So, my message is like that: let's leave to the others opportunity to earn an honest buck without investing something else except brain and hours online!
But watch closely every trade , because , after all, it's your ass,money,bizz involved

Crysty
icq:41313171 www.beautynude.com (http://www.beautynude.com)