Interesting find re: consoles [Archive] - Adult Webmaster Info BBS

cynthia

11-28-1999, 03:07 PM

K - I'm sure everyone here has seen that overall productivity of all trades has gone down, and the blame has been placed squarely on stale traffic. But I've found something out recently that may be just as big a factor.

I, too have been trying to raise my outclicks, and I've been keeping track of everything I change along with its productivity, and compiling a little chart so I can see at a glance what kind of placement works and what doesn't. As part of this, I decided to take out one little entrance console.

Doing this had an amazing effect on my outclicks. The clicks on my consoles went down 1% (obviously), but the productivity of every other link went up. When I did the math, my overall productivity of every link went up 3% (which makes up for the 1% in "losses").

Donger's partner runs a site that has NO consoles, and his outclick productivity is really high. I think this is why:

You see that consoles get clicks, so you add them. And everyone else adds them, then everyone adds more, then to compete you add delayed consoles or full screen unclosable consoles, and soon enough everyone has a bazillion consoles that just keep pop pop popping, and in his frenzy to shut down all these windows, the surfer just blindly starts shutting stuff down, and eventually (purposely or accidentally), closes the original window.

And that ends the circle.

I'm not telling anyone what to do with their site, just saying that if everyone relys on the links on their PAGE, and not the links of 15 consoles that pop during each visit, I think overall tades will go up. I personally am getting rid of everything except one entrance, and the exit traffic that I send to a sponsor. If anyone's interested, I'll let this roll for a few days and post any results here.

nick

11-28-1999, 06:03 PM

Yeah cynthia that sounds interesting, please post the results of your outclick ratios when your done your testing.
How about having content? Like what Due is trying to do, you think that'll increase outs?

--------
trade hits? http://www.69delight.com

Due

11-28-1999, 06:10 PM

Before my productivity was down to around 100%-115%
Now it's on 150% :-)
Great idea removing some of the popups.
Now I have only 2 popups and content.. Looks like it is going to work :-)
BTW. If anybody interested in getting free content without hosting it yourself just link a few places to http://www.mdue.dk/tgp/tgp.cgi?action=random
Everytime a user clicks on the link he will be taken to a random thumbnail gallery (without console and misleading links)

------------------
Happy Trading
Click here to trade with Free-HardcoreSex.com (http://www.free-hardcoresex.com/add_site.html)

Click here to trade with Pussy Lovers (http://www.mdue.dk/tsp/add_site.html)

Click here to trade with Elite Sex Gallery (http://www.sextop.dk/tsp/add_site.html)

Regards
Due
ICQ - 7694991

donger

11-28-1999, 06:13 PM

nothing's really going to drastically increase your outclicks until all these other sites you trade with stop their borderline cheating bullshit. Like freehornysluts refreshing his entire site on a delay, so that it smothers whoever he's trading with. Everybody is doing this shit now, and IMHO that's more reponsible for shitty traffic than anything. A user clicking a "shutdown windows?" console is a lot less likely to be interested in your site than he is in not shutting down windows. These kinds of tactics are what's killing us all. I'm guilty of it, hell, having a little browser image on top of a console was my idea. Now we get to see what traffic is like when everybody is using that. I'm perfectly willing to give that up if we can set some standards around here for type and number of console on a site. I think we would all see traffic getting more productive if the visitors we were receiving actually expected to go someplace when they clicked a link instead of just stopping their computer from shutting down or shutting down another console. What i think needs to happen is that we band together, form a standards group for what is and isn't acceptable as far as this shit is concerned, and then just don't trade with anybody that doesn't abide. This kind of stuff is like a chain reaction.. once people start doing it, it lowers other peoples productivity, and they have to start doing it just to keep up, which degrades the overall quality. Then you get people getting even more desperate and refreshing their page back on top of their trades. this bullshit has got to stop. once it does, i think anybody with a well designed site will see a nice increase in both the productivity and quality of their traffic.

Anthony

11-28-1999, 06:32 PM

I would like to include my findings with my own site.

My productivity went up soon as I cleared the 10+ consoles going up all over the place.

Down to 2 on enter, 2 on exit and one on delay for 20 seconds to let the main page fully load. Working on making it less and keeping my productivity outclicks.

I am looking now to making a "Clickable" site vs. a console hell site.

Since I've done that, ppl with productivity tracking have been asking me what I did to make my traffic more clickable. So it works.

Concensus? Let's do it. As with anything on the web, the wild wild west turns into modern day cities sooner than later.

Best regards,

------------------
Anthony
anthony@freesmutpics.com
<Hit me up for real clean trades, ICQ 21239908>

Reaver

11-28-1999, 06:47 PM

i agree with you 150% donger and cynthia. yes, my site still has a few consoles...but it doesn't mean that i like to have them. i want to remove all of my consoles IF i can. however, it's IMPOSSIBLE to do that now since almost every site is popping up non-stop lame ass consoles. i have tried to remove my consoles, but the result is the outclick dropped down to 70% and there's no way i can keep up with my trades. it's not that my site is poorly designed. it's simply that the surfers simply are so sick of those popups that they just close everything or reboot their computers. i can smell the crisis here if this continues...

yes, i think we HAVE TO restrict on the number of popups. it's WAY getting out of hand on popups. donger, if you think we can get enough ppl to trade with with reasonable consoles, count me in. i think we really have to apply some standards. i thought this board was the purpose of this, but it never seem to happen.

cynthia

11-28-1999, 06:49 PM

They tried to get a Standards list together once before, and it failed. Seems everyone's standards are different, and it's hard to penalize an entire group when only a fraction believe that their behavior is questionable. :/ If someone's going to try again, though, I'm all for it. Let me know what I can do to help. (ICQ# in profile)

As far as having real content on the page: I don't know. I remember reading a post on the old board a long time ago that complained that a lot of new sites had no content on them anymore. This was right before I launched my site, and I thought that when I set it up, I'd have like one out of every 10 or 15 links actually go to something. I never did, because I was afraid of losing the traffic (I don't want surfers getting too satisfied, you know http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif ).

I'm willing to actually try it this time. I'm going to watch this console change for a while, now. But the next thing I was thinking of doing was adding a few real pictures (*gasp*), just to see what happens.

Due

11-28-1999, 07:04 PM

Anthony,
Yeah I just noticed you have a productivity at 262% on my site :-) That is one of the best :-)
Ask me the rules should be like this:
-No more than 2 popups when you enter
-No more than 2 exit console
-No consoles opening above trades
I think the reason that nobody noticed a drop in the productivity was that suddenly everybody startet using a ton of consoles trading exit traffic etc. etc. Nobody thought it was needed to bring in fresh traffic because now they got more from the other CJ sites
That is also why people that buy exit traffic dropped the payout from 0.5 cent to 0.3 cent :-/

------------------
Happy Trading
Click here to trade with Free-HardcoreSex.com (http://www.free-hardcoresex.com/add_site.html)

Click here to trade with Pussy Lovers (http://www.mdue.dk/tsp/add_site.html)

Click here to trade with Elite Sex Gallery (http://www.sextop.dk/tsp/add_site.html)

Regards
Due
ICQ - 7694991

gary100

11-28-1999, 07:15 PM

Why not just make a list of good trades. Set some arbitrary standard and make a list. Fuck consensus. If you set the standard at 2 consoles and i have 5, well i better loose some if i wanna be listed. If not, fuck me. In my own experience, from the time i got on the internet, when consoles open up, i just start shutting them down and get out of the site as fast as possible. The goal should be to get surfers to our sponsors, not to scare them off of porn forever. I have 2 enter consoles opening in the background and no exit consoles. I hate them and would be glad to get rid of them and trade with others who do the same.

Gary

donger

11-28-1999, 07:26 PM

well, i think we can all probably agree on this:

1) no refreshing your fucking page on top of mine. like shane said, how am i supposed to sell any memberships with some fuckhead's site smothering people who are taking the tour?

2) no consoles, layers, or any other bullshit that looks like a browser, windows system message, scrollbar, or anything else where the user doesn't expect to navigate his browser by clicking on it

3) no more than 3 total consoles benefitting your script. This doesn't include the one that you may or may not be selling as exit traffic.

these rules are reasonable, hell this is the way it was when i started. If we can agree on something like this and get everybody behind it, we can effectively kill any site that doesn't have their own traffic that doesn't follow these rules.

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[Note: This message has been edited by donger]

donger

11-28-1999, 07:41 PM

P.S. - things have gotten so bad in this realm, with the major focus being on increasing the productivity of traffic coming from other trade sites so as to be able to send it back to more trade sites, etc, that we've lost our focus on getting more people trading traffic with all of our sites in general. What we badly need is people with little tgps, avs sites, etc feeding us traffic and letting us repay them with fresh visitors. Who in their right mind is going to sign up to trade traffic with a site that has 15 consoles and refreshes itself on top of your site every 30 seconds?
Bringing in fresh traffic yourself is a bitch, admittedly, but the best way to bring in fresh traffic IMHO is to trade with sites that aren't part of the traffic trading loop. The way shit stands right now, these people would be better off sending their hits to a toplist than to us, as far as quality of traffic goes. THAT right there is the one thing that needs to change. If we could get more traffic from outside this sphere (which was the original idea), we would all be growing instead of sinking.

just my 2 cents

gary100

11-28-1999, 07:50 PM

Good call Donger

IMHO 2 consoles, 1 on enter 1 on exit is plenty, but i would agree to your proposal. Anything is better than 10 or 15.

yellofello

11-28-1999, 07:52 PM

i couldnt agree more with the thoughts on this thread... i just redesigned my site the other day (i was previously using 1 enter and 2 chained exits) and now i only have one enter pop and my overall clicks jumped about 30%+

design should never be overlooked, and never substituted for by consoles. like cynthia stated, theres a cost/benefit, but just because you get 25% clickthrus on a console, doesnt mean you wont lose more than that off of your main page.

~yellofello
icq: 45352604

Dan

11-28-1999, 08:01 PM

I agree with all of you,

the problem is that if you're not using the same tricks as the other sites, you're loosing productivity & traffic.

When a site uses a new trick, like "windows pop-ups" or setting the focus on their pages using a timer, you can see it climbing in the rankings really fast, and you have no choice but to use the same trick if you don't want to lose your traffic. This is why it is becoming really shitty traffic and things are getting worst and worst.

Setting up clear rules would stop that kind of behavior and optimize traffic productivity. It only has to be stopped somewhere, and I think that if we don't set up clear rules, the CJ industry will continue to loose its traffic.

We should startup a new circle of clean sites with no pop-ups to see how it is doing. I'm pretty sure it will be amazing. I've never understood why productivity was under 200%, it would normally take at least 2 clicks (if not more) to a surfer to discover that all links are blind and that he won't get any free content.

Regards

------------------
Regards,
Dan - 2897381
http://www.pornography4all.com

donger

11-28-1999, 08:14 PM

righto- i think no consoles is a little extreme, but we just need to cut off these people who are pulling shit like this and take it back to the way it was this a few months ago. Back then, you used to actually be able to make it back to the site you came from. People wonder why their outclicks are barely scraping 100%, it's because even if somebody DID want to come back and visit more links on your site, they would have a bitch of a time doing it with 15-20 consoles in between the one site they just visited and returning to yours :P

if we can come to some kind of agreement between the established sites that have all the traffic (freepicturesgallery, asianfreepics, xpix, dailytoons, p4all, etc) then we can make it worse to have all that crap than to not, since people can slather their pages in consoles, but they will have a damn hard time finding any good trades. Let these fuckers trade with and screw each other over, and let's, as a group, break away from that bullshit and start trading only with compliant sites. I have seen nothing but positive responses to this thread and the idea of keeping shit in check. Now we all just have to agree on a standard and stick to it, and cut off anybody who steps outside of it. TGPs have rules, why can't we?

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Anthony

11-29-1999, 12:04 AM

Good Deal Donger, I concur.

I forgot to mention as well. The day I cleaned up my consoles, my signups almost doubled.

More food for though, eh?!

------------------
Anthony
anthony@freesmutpics.com
<Hit me up for real clean trades, ICQ 21239908>

Anthony

11-29-1999, 01:51 AM

Just to go back on consensus for those who say fuck consensus...

Consensus means an agreement, an understanding, an accord among a group of people on a particular subject.

I will stand up and say I have been guilty of multiple consoles. It seems the more I added, the more my outclicks went. I had a long talk on ICQ with a high volume CJ webmaster about it and he politely made the comment that sites like mine are what is killing the niche.

We cannot tell people what to have and have not on their sites. We can suggest standards, and if they agree and adhere, we trade with them. If not, then we politely say thank you but not at this time. I've talked to quite a few webmasters who did exactly that.

My traffic speaks for itself. I feed my site SE, TGP, and Link List traffic. I want to succeed in this venture, as all of you do. Let's get together as a group now and set standards.

Best regards,

------------------
Anthony
anthony@freesmutpics.com
<Hit me up for real clean trades, ICQ 21239908>

cynthia

11-29-1999, 02:25 AM

Great! Excellent! Kick-ass! I'm all freakin' excited!!

Now who wants to organize this monstrosity? http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

Food For Thought: Dan totally has a point - as soon as one site finds a new trick to twist out a couple more outclicks, you almost HAVE to repeat it just to stay afloat. A list of sites which agree to comply with a few basic groundrules will help, but what's to stop it starting all over again? How do you define what's not acceptable if the unacceptable tactic hasn't been thought up yet?

Anthony

11-29-1999, 02:32 AM

Cynthia,

We've got enough Webmasters here to make a good to truth difference.

Let's start it this way.

Cut and paste this list:

======Will Join Standards Group=========
Anthony ICQ 21239908
Add your name here

Due

11-29-1999, 02:46 AM

I canged the rules on my site
From now on. Everybody get a 1.15 ratio
BUT if you have 2 popups or less on enter and 2 popups or less on exit message me and I will give you a 1.8 ratio.
This way clean sites will get more traffic and console sites will get less. + I upped the productivity requirrement is upped to 80% (8 out of 10 surfers must click something) That should not be a problem for clean sites.
I will go through my entire list of trades once I converted my last 2 sites to clean sites.
Also I will make a complete list of clean sites IF you message me with the URL, Site name, number of console. Or you can mail me.

------------------
Happy Trading
Click here to trade with Free-HardcoreSex.com (http://www.free-hardcoresex.com/add_site.html)

Click here to trade with Pussy Lovers (http://www.mdue.dk/tsp/add_site.html)

Click here to trade with Elite Sex Gallery (http://www.sextop.dk/tsp/add_site.html)

Regards
Due
ICQ - 7694991

Due

11-29-1999, 03:04 AM

======Will Join Standards Group=========
Anthony ICQ 21239908
Due ICQ 7694991

Dan S

11-29-1999, 03:29 AM

Girls and Boys,
Thread of the year so far!

BTW, everyone who is selling exit to mr brian will have to cut down consoles anyway...:-)

======Will Join Standards Group=========
Anthony ICQ 21239908
Due ICQ 7694991
Dan S. ICQ 11795232

moose

11-29-1999, 03:35 AM

======Will Join Standards Group=========
Anthony ICQ 21239908
Due ICQ 7694991
Dan S. ICQ 11795232
moose 31941785

Due

11-29-1999, 03:38 AM

http://mdue.dk/clean/
A List of CLEAN Cirkle Jerk Sites.
Visit to view and if you wish to be added :-) http://mdue.dk/clean/

cynthia

11-29-1999, 04:42 AM

======Will Join Standards Group=========
Anthony ICQ 21239908
Due ICQ 7694991
Dan S. ICQ 11795232
moose 31941785
cynthia 37592019

Jam

11-29-1999, 05:36 AM

======Will Join Standards Group=========
Anthony ICQ 21239908
Due ICQ 7694991
Dan S. ICQ 11795232
moose 31941785
cynthia 37592019
Jam ICQ 13604157

shane

11-29-1999, 05:50 AM

Well thats good news, although I deleated all the shit sites I was linking to, and my signups and traffic increased. unfortunatly the good sites i was still linking to were still linking to the shit sites(I dont know why), so delayed console chains and front refresh windiows were still effecting my site, prahaps now if people would just simply stop linking to "cheaters" like freehornysluts etc then this will definatly make a difference.

Because I deleated over 50 sites I was linking to because of excessive consoles, and other low life semi cheating tactics, im looking to trade again, with "propper" sites.

my site is http://sexslam.com
my ICQ is 12172209