PLEASE READ [Archive] - Adult Webmaster Info BBS

Rimmer

03-02-2000, 05:52 AM

I'm all for removing layers and all other productivity killers.

We don't want our sites to be such that non CJ sites don't wish to trade with us.

If we all followed the same set of rules 1 small console on entry plus exit traffic to our main sponsor would work fine.

Our goal in CJ'ing should be - Send Our Traffic to Sponsors ... Send non converted traffic onto the next CJ to convince the surfers that there is NO FREE PORN

The reasons we want clean are:
(1) We want to send our sponsors quality traffic. If it converts better for our sponsors they'll pay us more per surfer.
(2) We don't want to crash browsers
(3) We don't want to use excessive Bandwidth
(4) More non CJ sites will trade with us

My idea on the cleanup on CJ sites is as follows:
(a) we cannot do it all of a sudden ... that will not work for us ... the people at the top have too much to lose
(b) we require major participation of the sextracker top 200 sites
(c) we introduce the clean rules with a single rule at a time
(d) rules are proposed and voted by CJ sites in the sextracker Top 200
(e) Votes are weighted based upon traffic ... NickD's vote gets a weighting of 200 (for his 200k unqiues a day) whereas sites down the bottom would get a weighting of 20 (for 20 k unqiues a day) ... the reason sites below a ranking of around 200 won't receive a vote is purely based upon time constraints. People with multiple sites in the top 200 get all their sites traffic weightings added together.
(f) If a new rule gets a 2/3 majority it becomes LAW for CJ's
(g) Participating sites must inform traders that do not conform with this new rule to either clean up the site or stop trading with that particular trade. The reason being is that unclean traffic is still there several clicks down the line.
(h) The idea is rules start off milder and get stricter as we raise the quality of our traffic.

These are my musings ... nothing more at this stage. Let me know if you like/dislike these ideas.

Dan S

03-02-2000, 06:13 AM

Sounds like a good idea.
Slowly but surely http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif

Dan

Juggler

03-02-2000, 07:17 AM

How you going MrBrian YOU BIG JERK

First let me say I am 100% behind cleaning up the CJ sites and will be willing to try anything to do it.

The other day I was flicking through the old post looking for any tips/hints that may be useful and the topic of cleaning up the sites has been here since the board was started and it has been an ongoing topic. This means 1 thing to me most of us if not all of us are 100% behind it in theory.

In practise I think the thing that is stopping it happen is the quick buck mentality personally what I think needs to happen is a total agreement to not trade with sites using quality killing ideas but how do we put this into practise we all to a certain degree are trying to follow a formula to make a successful site/s but there are so many individuals out there this comes out in many different ways.

So we ban layers next week there will be something new just as bad to take it's place. If we ban that the week after there will be something else. So how do we monitor sites unless we are all willing to chip and pay someone it is unfair to expect a individual to take on the task so we need some form of self regulation we ALL need to take apart and that is not just a matter of coming to the board and moaning about someone's site but we need to TALK and HELP new webmaster and each other after all we are working together not against each other.

Reading this back it sounds like I am against cleaning up our act but I am not I am 100% behind it and will do anything I can to help.

To finish up I would like to tell you a little story about me. My first scripted CJ site happened when Tim made UCJ available my site shot to 36k in 3 days I nearly P****d myself I set up a new trade with a friend of mine and he ICQ'ed me and said something like "I see you copied FreePicturesGallery site" at the time I had not heard of NickD or his site, but yes I am a copier I had taken my site basically from 3 or 4 other sites and what came out was basically a copy of FreePicturesGallery with different thumbs. I would like to add as I remember console use then was nearly none. My point as lame as it may be if I was starting now how would my site look after clicking to a few site I really believe it would be a console hell and I would be proud of my new site which was following the sites of all the great webmasters that where here before me.

If we can kill console we spend less $$$ on bandwidth and more on content scripts and other great webmaster tool and earn more $$$$

P.S. Love the idea of a voting system I think the key is getting the bigger sites to kick us smaller sites in to touch

Well that's my 7.5 cents worth

Happy trading

Goof

03-02-2000, 09:36 AM

Brain asked me to look at his post, and I definately agree with him.

Cleaning up CJ exit will not only increase traffic to the sites in general, but it will improve the quality of that traffic. A surfer who hasn't been bombarded as much forced advertising is more receptive to the ads they might actually be interested in. If your CJ site, and every site that links to you, jerks the surfer around too much, they stop looking at those consoles completely. In most cases, the exit consoles are closed immediately, and those hits can't be tracked or paid for.

Cleaning up the exit consoles will milk more money out of the surfers into the webmaster's pocket, which is what those sites are designed to do right?

Doug McGregor
Traffic Broker
Xamo Entertainment Inc.
Doug@xamocorp.com

DavidC

03-02-2000, 09:58 AM

I have mixed feelings about layers...Kind of like them, kind of don't.

I use one closable layer on http://www.innocentteen.com and have been for a couple of weeks. I'm taking it off NOW however in hopes of increasing my traffic productivity. My site has tanked in the last week and I want to work to get it back up.

The layer is down now, and if anyone wants to get some good trades going with me at innocentteen.com, please let me know!

David
ICQ: 47414741 http://www.innocentteen.com

Crysty

03-02-2000, 10:29 AM

Well man , what can I said, you got to see my stats to believe
Until 2 dayz ago I didnt used layers, because YES, I think it's the most annoying part for a surfer
Hearing of this discussion on this board I wanted to see myself how is working
So I just added one yesterday, and surfer clicks are now 25% higher than it was before
BUT !
If it's a rule, I am not a striker and I will remove it asap.
I am waiting for your vote.
btw: Having 200k/day does you?!? the strength to decide for all of us what's best?

reyes

03-02-2000, 10:31 AM

Mr Brian, i agree with you at 200%.
This is going nowhere right now. I've seen sites using 8 consoles and layers!

This is absolutly stupid it should stop!
It is like a stupid war that is going to kill all our site. We need some rules that will apply to EVERYBODY, no exception.

The only way i think that can make it stop is that the sponsors fix rules. Furtunately,
i've talked to an EMI representative yesterday and they are working on new rules that should apply very soon. When these rules will apply, it need to apply to EVERYBODY. It means that site not using EMI or Mr.Brian exit should use the same standard too.

Regards,

rEyes
icq# 2810314
pornography4all.com

cynthia

03-02-2000, 12:32 PM

Here's my shoddy 30K (and falling) hits worth:

I read this thread late last night, and was all set to post something to the effect of "I agree but this discussion has been had before and it changed nothing".

I'm so glad I woke up this morning to some different kinds of ideas. I like the idea of a voting system. I even like the suggested idea of "weighting" votes. Sure - that means my vote gets less weight, but that's fine. It gives the incentive to participate to the people who stand to lose the most. That just makes sense.

I'll be following this post with interest - I'd sure like to see something to come of this discussion this time. I'm cynical, though. The fact that EMI is issuing another set of rules ~should~ help - but at the same time, EMI has issued rules before. If nobody's going to enforce them then the "rules" mean nothing. Not badmouthing EMI here - I just noticed that there's not a lot of compliance with the last set of standards they issued.

Just as a side note - I haven't had layers on my site since the first time I heard this discussion (back in November), and my site's definately suffered for it. Not only have I thought about re-adding my layers, I've actually been urged to do so by other webmasters. :/

chimp

03-02-2000, 04:02 PM

I hear everyone bitching about layers and other so-called 'productivity killers', but nothing ever gets done. Why? I quote Donger:
"...once one person starts using one, he starts screwing the sites he trades with so badly that they need to add them to their sites to raise the productivity of the now lousy traffic that's flowing in."
Thus we have a mexican standoff. A case where no one is going to back down for fear that the other side either won't get rid of their layers at the same time, or won't do it at all. Hell, I gave in to this sort of mentality, but I had no choice. Other people's productivity on my sites is slipping about 1% every 2-4 days lately. That's just fucking awful.

It is my opinion that most CJ webmasters are too in love with the dollar (and too scared others won't pull their layers) to just clean up their sites all at once. They fear that this will lead to a lower number of clickthrus on their site, and thus lower their traffic overall. If everyone could figure out a way for us to all do this together in some kind of orchestrated effort, I would be all for it, and I am. But I don't see this happening...I don't even see most of the people doing it. Shit, half of the people trading don't even read this board.
One problem is that I don't see big sites getting behind this campaign. Why should they? They have nothing to gain from it. Unless other big players start pulling their traffic, which they won't...there's no incentive for them to clean up their sites.

I still think the main problem is that not enough people are adding their own fresh traffic. Not that I'm in favor of the deceptive layer, but there are other fundamental problems that need to be addressed before this one, IMO. I think CJ is slowly on the way out, unfortunately. Traffic is bad all around, and not just because of layers.

Have a Nice Day.

Dan

03-02-2000, 04:59 PM

Hi,

reyes is right, it is getting nuts and we have to put a stop right to layers and multiple pop-ups now otherwise the CJ sites will slowly die. It has already begin.

I hope EMI rules will help us but I'm affraid the other sponsors won't follow them.

I totally agree with Rimmer on 1 small enter console & 1 exit console, no layers. I also agree with the voting idea.

Ask the guys that are around since the beginning, they'll tell you that CJ sites were doing better than now with a small (or even with no) enter console.

Some sites are going too far with the usage of pop-ups & layers. Me & reyes are motivated to put an end to this by joining the group. Yes we have a lot to lose but anyway if we don't do anything we'll lose everything.

Rimmer's post should be used as the reference, I totally agree with him on everything.

P.S.: Script writers could implement these rules right in to their script. It would be easy to detect and stop trading with sites that do not match the requirements.

Dan - Pornography4all.com / Blind-io

Likwid Blaze

03-02-2000, 05:08 PM

Chimp, when your quoting Donger saying that people won't clean their sites because they will always have to follow the ones who put layers, etc., I don't think that's a good point now. Cuz that's why we want to start a voting system that will stop the ones who always don't want to follow webmasters who want to clean the biz, cuz now if you don't follow the rules voted by the voting system, people won't trade with you, period! So I think that if we can implant that voting system, that, for the first time since a while, will be able to make a cleaner CJ business.

just my 2 cents...

MrBrian

03-02-2000, 08:09 PM

This is not a plug. But, i really like ucj's productivity senerios. i dont mind setting my foot down for rules with the exit program.
im all for it and it makes most people happy.

but, people if you see someoen with 8 consoles. dont trade with him! and let others know. he will clean up his act or run out of people to trade with.

lately. it will probably be a phase in for the rules for the exit program. i have spoken to a few people individually. if someone has a question, just ask me on icq
thanks, brian

MrBrian

03-02-2000, 08:11 PM

MrBrian
BigJerk

has a nice ring to it http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/cool.gif

Rimmer

03-02-2000, 08:47 PM

What would be nice also is if these rules we create become our exit traffic sponsors rules as well. They could have their own individual rules as well but perhaps they could include these rules as a subset of their own. This would help make the decisions made by the majority CJ have more weight.

And hopefully not just one exit traffic sponsor but all across the board.

I'll probably take a snapshot of the ST top 200 soon and get word on how many sites are interested in participating. I'll post the list on this site.

NickD

03-02-2000, 10:10 PM

I have always tried to keep our sites clean with no success. At the begining, we were using only 1 console on the enter and I didnt want it to be full screen. I thought it was stupid to use such consoles because basically the full enter consoles become the main pages and the index page ends up to be the exit page! But people didnt agree with me and all wanted to use them. Anyway, it would be pretty complicated to agree on a maximum width and height for a console huh? So now everyone use them and consider them "clean". Then some webmasters noticed an instablity in their traffic and decided to add a second console for the script. Again, I messaged them and told them it would hurt us in the long run since everyone, soon or later, would follow them and use 1 full enter console(which is already pretty anoying) and a second one. But they didnt agree with me and now everyone use at least 2 consoles without being considered "non-clean" sites. Then some people noticed that their traffic was still unstable and added a third console! Again, I took the time to message them several times, tried to explain them how it would affect their productivity but they didnt agree...Then the layers came up...Same story...I messaged all the webmasters using them, asked them to pull them before it would be too late but none of them did it...I messaged them again and again with no success...

The respond I got the more often was "it's my living, I can't afford to lose traffic" . What could I say ? From what I heard from people I talked to, many webmaster are not willing to clean their sites. Of course they are affraid to do a drastic change and I understand them.

But personally, I agree 100% with the "one console for the script and no layer" rule. But think about it, some webmaster will have to remove 2-3 consoles and 1 or 2 layers on their site to abide by these rules, thats quite a change! Will they accept to do that?

All our sites look crappy, mine included..some are "ok" , some are terrible...it would be great if we could clean them up.

If people are willing to clean up their site, I'm willing to do so. But if we want it to work, *everyone* would have to abide by the *same exact* rules . So if we do a vote, and 20% of webmasters disgree with the rules, what will we do? Delete them from our databases??? Thats a pretty delicate situation I would say...

Reaver

03-02-2000, 11:22 PM

it's very nice to hear you "big guys" input on making the cj a better industry. i believe that there are well over 90% of the cj webmasters would agree to clean up their sites. the problem being that no one really wants to make a drastic change in their sites first. what we can do is to set a particular day to make the transition so that the change won't affect any particular one much. if any one is not willing to make the change, we will all have to stop trading with them. and they'll clean up their sites eventually.

the steps:
1) poll for the rules.
2) set a day for the transition.
3) everything will be better after!

just my little cents.
Reaver

Dan

03-02-2000, 11:32 PM

Right Nick, we could at least slow down the trades with them at the beginning.

I'm pretty sure nobody would be stupid enough to stop trading with you just because they want to keep their 5 pop-ups. And even if a 20% of the webmasters don't agree on the rules, I'm wondering what they'll do with a 100-200k to jerk around between 30 sites. If they're really doing this for a living and want it to continue, they won't have any choice but to change their site to match the rules..

Yes you're right Nick it will be a drastic change for a lot of webmasters, but as Rimmer said we can vote progressive rules that will take effect at different time. Slowly but surely we'll be able to clean our sites without loosing traffic. I'm pretty sure we'll even get more than we have right now.

Regards
Dan

Ron

03-02-2000, 11:40 PM

Well i am as well, pleased to read that the higher "powers" are taking part, it shows that this message has gotten through to every level.

Personally i like the voting idea allready spoken for. more hits more the say. When you boil it down, they do have more say. For the plain fact that they OBVIOUSLY know more about the process (no pun to the small fry, you can still be smart but small ;-).

I also think that on a whole the clean idea hasn't been put into action for the plan fact that we are gun shy about it all. I mean if i don't take down my 5 popup's, sure i'll get messages. But i'd bet alof of my partners wouldn't kill the trade. Some kind of action should be taken, lower ratio or what ever, i don't know. You have to have some reason other than the mighty dollar to take action.

just a late night thought.
Ryan

Ron

03-02-2000, 11:43 PM

Dan: even though our stand on things sounds kind of different, i agree with you that rules should be brought in slow.

a smooth transition never hurt anyone!

chimp

03-03-2000, 12:44 AM

Likwid Blaze:
I hear you. What I'm saying is this; if you don't get 100% cooperation on this from the people with the most surfers (and they ARE the hub of most of the traffic that we're trading) then this is worthless. We tried this once before with 0 success. Times are different now, so I'm hoping that it will work. But I can tell you that if my top two trades, the ones that can trade with me the fastest, decide they don't want to comply, its going to be tough on me to pull their trade. I don't think that most other people would feel any differently. My traffic would pretty much come to a standstill except for what I'm sending it myself. And if you think that you're going to bring a site that's getting 100-200k hits a day to its knees by stopping your trade with it, that's probably not going to happen. A lot of these sites are smart enough to be trading traffic with non-cj sites.

Everyone's taken a hit in their traffic lately, but I don't think layers are main reason. Like I said before, not enough people are putting enough FRESH traffic in. Even trading with toplists is no guarantee of fresh traffic because all the CJ webmasters are trading with the same ones. Cleaning up the sites will help a little, and you can put my name on the list to comply with that if everyone else agrees to it. But when everyone is trading the same surfers over and over again, its not going to matter. Productivity is still going to be shit.

Let's say that my two top trades (sites A and B) are trading with me and with each other (which they most certainly are). If the majority of our traffic is coming from other CJ sites, which I'm sure it is, then we're all trading from the same pool of surfers. So site A sends me a surfer, then site B sends me the SAME surfer...both of them see it as a unique send, but I get 2 hits sent to me, and it only actually counts as one. That person is not going to click my site again. In actuality, I'm more than likely getting the same person sent to my site a lot more than 2 times, all from different sites.

Jesus that was a long post. Anyway, to wrap up, I agree with pretty much everything that Nick said in his post. We should try to make this work, but I don't think this will take care of all of our traffic troubles. Productivity is down because there are too many people that have jumped into the CJ business, especially recently, without adding one hit from an outside source.

Just my 38 dollars and 47 cents

Regards

:))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Due

03-03-2000, 02:03 AM

I totally agree with NickD.
Basicly my site sux BIG time at the moment. That will be changed within monday.
Imagin: Some dude wanna look at porn from his office, but offcourse his boss must never find out. So he would like a site that is easy to close if his boss suddently come into the office.
If he has 1-2 windows open it is pretty easy to handle. But what do you think what happends if this dude ends up at a site then 3 windows popup he think SHIT let me get outta here then he clicks something to get away because he don't wanna get bustet looking at porno at his job so he would basicly click something saying "click here I'm a Alien but close the windows please" to get rid of this then 2 sec. after he clicked that there is some layer telling him he is about to download 2 gig of teen pictures then he panics thinking "shit where am I going to save them" then he clicks cancel/ close whatever suddently he has 4 new open windows (7-9 total) the he realize what the fuck would happend if my boss came in here I could never close all of them.. So he starts closing all windows as fast as he can BUT suddently there is the exit sponsors poping up again and again..... then he just hit the reset button because there is no way to explane that.
BUT
If there mayby had been 1 small window popping up he might look closer.... when he look closer he see the text: access to XXX streams XXX pictures UNLIMITTED for a HOLE week and you only pay $2.95.
He is thinking SHIT THAT IS CHEAP let me try it out. Not thinking anything about it is renewing for $40 he just wan't some porn to look at at work. (so it should be FAST AND EASY to close the porn windows)
The last poll I saw from a porn site 60% where surfing the porn site from their job while they where having a wife and kid at home.
Just my 2 cents
If someone has a better idea let me know :-)
/Due
ICQ ~ 7694991

tony

03-03-2000, 02:37 AM

Chimp:

You are so right.The reason productivity is less now is because there are more CJ sites
than ever. It's crazy. Very few sites are bringing in new traffic in and all that is happening
is that the traffic is being bounced from one site to another. Now this is the nature of the CJ
site biz, but now that they are a dime dozen . it's brought the product down and we can not expect
anything else other than that. As far as a Layer with a Picture on it or a layer with text on it
saying that it leads to a another free porn site;that is no different than a Thumb or a text link
which bounces the surfer to another site.remember, this is a cj site. I agree 110% that
download layers, java errorlayers and system crash layers are just ridiculous and should simply
not be traded with.But to try and regulate the way sites are built is not the way we should go.
This is going to become a "Monarchy", and every time someone comes up with a new way of increasing
the traffic ,it is going to be put to some type of vote with the "board", is just not the way to
handle this.
The possibilities are endless for cj webmasters to create something that is clickable .
This arena should be self governed by the individual site owner to have some respect for his trade
partners and not use deceptive layers asforementioned above. eg "system error " If you feel
someone is using something abusive, JUST DONT TRADE WITH THEM or simply ask them to change it.
Obviously if you are abusing the sponcer by having a bunch ofwindows in front of their site,
this is not fair to them.
But remember these are high traffic sites ;the only way that they can sustain traffic are
the use of "Consoles". The days of one console are over by far(at most there were 10 cj sites at
that time ); no way we can sustain these traffic levels with one console on enter.
Remember these site have NO bookmark traffic .the surfer comes in and is bounced around.
No Experienced Surfer will ever come back to a cj sites wether there are 0 , 1 , 2, or 3 consoles as soon as he/she finds a Pic Post or TGP.
So the way the sponcers make there money from our sites is basically as such:the New Surfer
that gets to our site gets tired of looking for good porn and Joins a Paysite. We can handle this
the same way we handle CHILD PORN, PASSWORD(to protect sponcers),WAREZ SITES by monitoring who we trade with
Anyway ,before everyone goes crazy with ideas of forming a governing body,remember people have
worked long and hard to build their sites;and to create an "Oversight Government"is not the
Solution. Common sense and responsible / respectful trading are the best solutions.
thanks

richard

03-03-2000, 08:29 AM

Lol: this was discussed in a large thread a good month or two ago.

Someone wanted to set Feb 1st as the date to change things.

Its Games Theory (go look it up in an economics textbook).

Basically, the oligopolistic state that our industry is in, means that we are all interdependant.

Supermarkets (atleast in the UK) are the same; if one company drops their prices, the others all drop their prices, because they would lose customers. This results in everyone making less money.

If one company raised prices, the others dont raise prices, because they now look cheaper against the price riser.

Same applies to the CJ sites.

If one site increases consoles/layers/shit, then everyone has to increase the shit. If one person decreases the shit, then no-one else will, because they have an advantage over that site (more outclicks).

AH HA: but, if the supermarkets all raised their prices, and if the CJ sites all decreased their shit, then everyone's a winner (baby aint that the truth, making love to you is what i do...).

OK: so we now have a situation where all CJ sites have no shit. WOOHOOO! productivity is up, traffic is booming, the $$$ are flowing freely...

...but we are still interdependant.

So, someone wants more out of it, so he adds an extra console, layer, whatever. He makes more than anyone else.

Someone else sees this, and wants to do the same...and then it spreads and everyone is doing it.

A classic example is the Oil Cartel (OPEC yea?) Each country started chipping away at the high price set, until they had fucked up, and the price had fallen considerably.
------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
GOOD OLE ECONOMICS: My teacher would be proud of me...oh no, cos i work with porn - maybe not.

=-=========================================-=

So long as someone can chip away but adding consoles/layers to get the upper hand on another site, it will happen. Period.

Cool, you got EMI and Goof involved, and a couple of sites, but its not going to happen.

CJ is shit, it always will be.

Thats not to say i would not support a movement to clean up 101% though. But, its just never going to work.

Richard.

MrBrian

03-03-2000, 10:45 AM

No a classic example is you asking me to buy your traffic a couple days ago, and me saying no because you have too many layers. so you take the cheaper offer

let me revert back to my happyteens story
40k/day clean cj with no popups and one full page exit netted me 30 signups a day. there is a reason ultradonkey.com wont trade with you guys and its not the script

i think most people are smart enough to want to do this long term and to those that just want a quick buck, i cant wait to see you disappear with all the others

peace-brian

Dan

03-03-2000, 12:19 PM

The fresh traffic issue.. this is an old one. For sure we have to bring in fresh traffic, this will help productivity and everything. But, our sites looks like shit, who would want to send their surfers into the circle and never see them back. We are giving ourselves a bad name with all these shits, this is getting almost impossible to build a good trade with a non-cj site. This is normal. The non-cj site will never see its hit back because of all the pop-ups & crashes. On the other hand, since our traffic is shitty, who would want a hit whos main goal is to close the fake window that just appeard?

Let's give ourselves cleaner rules, it will be more easier to bring in fresh traffic. When a lot of non-cj webmasters will be happy about their traffic trade with us, the word will go around and our reputation will be better than it is right now.

More fresh traffic, more productivity, more money. IMHO that's the key.

Rich: Last thread was lead and followed by a small percentage of webmasters, and it was not organized. These errors shouldn't be repeated this time.

Regards,
Dan

Ron

03-03-2000, 12:26 PM

personally i have built all my sites to a cleaner standard, since day one. I don't see how anyone could still put 4 popup's and a few exit's and expect to make good money, in the long run. As well as freash traffic, you got to have it, this should be priority #1 when bulding your site.

My stand after a good night sleep is. FUCK IT! if every thing crashes, then at least the people who wern't serious about it are gone. The ones who were in it for the long run would build the CJ back up, i would hope. Following the cleaner layout as well.

Even if over time people start to see a direct response to cleaner sites and better productivity. How could you not clean your site up? If your are still making shit for money, but buddy beside you is making $5k/month and he is clean. Whhat would you do?

richard

03-03-2000, 12:40 PM

WHAT THE FLYING FUCK ARE YOU ON BRIAN?

Ok people, to fill you in: I stopped sending EMI (Brian was my contact with them)
traffic before Xmas, because we had not been paid for traffic from november, when you had told us the wire had gone out.

We hitched up with Steve of http://www.garbagetraffic.com straight away, and have sold him our traffic ever since.

I would never have asked you to buy our traffic, because we are perfectly happy with Steve, ta very much.

If you had told me that i had too many layers, i would not have cried about it and changed for you, i would have told you to fuck off.

My site has one (ahem) layer - ('ahem' because its not a layer infact, but a image).

Dont start spreading shit that i asked you to buy my traffic. Setting the record straight, we will not ever be dealing with EMI again, because of the very poor payment record we have had with you (Brian).

As for taking the 'cheaper' offer, i refer to our awful experiences with EMI: I would rather get paid a reasonable rate from someone i trust, and like, than get paid months and months late from someone who i hold no respect for, and certainly don't trust, just for an extra $0.0005 or whatever you were trying to get me to sign up for.

You fucking go around like you own the CJ business. It really pisses me off, mate.

Give a fuck if you were the first to pay people in the current structure? nope. If it wasnt you, then it would have been someone else.

And like i said in another post, i am not in this game for the long term. I ask all of you out there: Can you see yourselves doing this in 20/30/40 years time? I for one cant, and if that makes me some kind of loser, then fine.

I do think that CJ needs cleaning up: there were a couple of threads MONTHS ago about this. I asked (on the board) for your input/help then, and heard nothing from you.
--------------------------------------------
Anyway, enough of the personal insults, i dont like Brian, he doesnt like me.
--------------------------------------------

I still want a cleaner CJ, like most people do.

Richard.

MrBrian

03-03-2000, 03:16 PM

LOL richard
whats with the "chill everyone" and then you post 2 more message talking bad on me.
its kinda obvious you have a promotional deal with steve or you wouldnt put his url up on every post because you dont even use his program anymore. i saw the keel exit url on your page in that hidden frame LOL. USING STEVE EVER SINCE?? LOL LIER LIER PANTS ON FIRE!
as for me not responding to your icq's its because you are on my ignore list. learn from your partner chris and be a little more civilized. -brian

mutley

03-03-2000, 03:40 PM

richard, your site (freerotic.com) really needs to be cleaned up...

I, a experienced "fast console closer" surfer who's been on the net since -95, had really big trouble to stop your consoles to clutter up my desktop...
Nasty thing to popup a console and blur it, so when I try to close it it's already blurred, and when I focus and close that one, another blurred console pops up... it keeps going and going and going...

no wonder why productivity is low.... http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/frown.gif

richard

03-03-2000, 09:11 PM

Mutley: nothing personal.

But sure, as a 'console closer' myself, i cloose all popups that hit me, unless form a asite i know to be pukka.

What is your site?

If peiople have problems with % blah blah blah then they should contact the webmasters directly, not via a board that alot of people font rrad.

With love for do many people, http://www.garbagetraffic.com - the best sponsor i have ever used on my CJ sites,

Richard.

richard

03-03-2000, 09:16 PM

sorry yea: to a CERTAIN person for my posts.

*DOH*

I am currently, on my CJ sites, using a new broker to the marjet, indeed. http://www.keelbayltd.co.uk .

this does not mean that on our other sites (do you know how many we run?) with have not got deals with Mr. Goolbeldy? No.

So Brian, get your fact right before you start posting bollocks.

LOL@Brian.

you so dont have a clue.

With love for so many people (ahem),

Richard.

Ron

03-04-2000, 08:00 PM

Richard: I am not wanting to start anything here, BUT how can you bad mouth brain every chance you get? Then on the 2nd breath talk about beeing proffesional and not posting on the board.

Sorry bud, but that's low in my books! VERY un proffesional, and not organized. And yeah um kill those pop's on your site. It froze my whole shitty PC!

I am not one to talk, but i do realise this fact and i do moderate what i post here.

chimp

03-06-2000, 09:43 PM

so...what did we agree on here? this thread seems to have died down and I'm wondering if everyone didn't just give up again. I'm behind it if somebody has a good idea on how to attack this. is somebody working on a voting system?

shane

03-07-2000, 12:57 AM

I usually reject about 1 or 2 new sites a week who want to trade with me because of tons of pops etc. If everyone done that the problem would be non existant.

reyes

03-07-2000, 01:22 AM

Well, i think we all know that we need to clean our sites.

I think we will need to strongly apply the rules or it will happen again. It means that we will have to kill all trades with sites that will not follow the rules.
ZERO TOLERANCE

Now we have to agree on these new rules. I think 1 exit and 1 enter console is a maximum. I think we also have to drop all shits like layers, fake javascript consoles, fake toolbars, fake windows, all shits that open an unexpected window.

Regards,

rEyes

Ron

03-07-2000, 02:22 AM

Sorry for the "on edge" post before, i'm glad i have seen some action on the part of some webmasters. I agree, 100% fully, ZERO TOLERANCE!! I have received numerous messages over ICQ about webmasters taking action.

If every one does their part it'll work out, look at it this way.

You are running your CJ site, which isn't clean, lots of pops and shitty prod. A great number of sites you trade with tell you clean it or our trade is dead, what would you do? If your serious about things, you'll get your act together. Once a greater number of sites are clean it'll make it easyer on all the jerks out there!

Some motivation http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/wink.gif
Ryan

shane

03-07-2000, 04:58 AM

Who runs that exit program that opens two windows each time one is closed? That is bullshit and should also be banned

shane

03-07-2000, 05:01 AM

Who runs that exit program that opens two windows each time one is closed? That is bullshit and should also be banned

Killah

03-07-2000, 06:17 AM

Hey Guys...

Normally I don't agree in the stuff of MrBrian because we had some troubles weeks ago, but this time he is really right with his idea.
It's no new idea, but maybe another try to get this finally working.
There are some difficulties that I saw as I TRIED to install the so called QCJ (Quality-CJ) with the help of CycleJerk.com.
The idea was to find trade partners with quality sites for CJ-owners.
"Send 3 trader in, and get the complete list of all traders in return" was the idea.
But I have to say that it didn't work.. I received 2 submissions from the webmasters.
To get such a stuff running, many people have to change what they do.
We can't change the style in which the newbies do their pages, they test everything and don't know that there is no difference between 2 or 10 consoles on their pages.
80 % of the CJ-Sites sell their exit traffic, so the brokers have to find customers that make contracts for exit consoles without additional exits or just 1 after the exit console.
This is a hard job, as MrBrian and all other brokers will have experienced.
After this, the rules need to be changed.
At SellYourExit.com we allow 2 Enter consoles and 1 exit, ours from the mainpage.
I guess WE could turn this into a "1 Enter and our exit".
But when I see webmasters that are SOOO happy, that they can open the console from their broker twice + have 3 other consoles, then I see a small chance of success.
The brokers would need to change the rules ALL TOGETHER.
If the webmasters that are selling their exit to EMI, to Blindest or to us would ALL switch their pages, then this would be a great start.
But as long as there is the chance to sell your exit to a broker who allows double exits , this will be hard because many webmasters will just switch with golden $$$ in their eyes.

So I would like to hear the opinion of Anton, Doug, MrBrian and Steve here to figure out if this would be possible in some way.

Without rules, there will be no force to change something.
If we set up these rules, we could have a start and the profit for ALL of us, the webmasters and the brokers will be better than before.

So what do you think ?

tony

03-07-2000, 03:04 PM

Chimp:

You are so right.The reason productivity is less now is because
there are more CJ sites than ever. It's crazy. Very few sites are bringing
in new traffic in and all that is happeningis that the traffic is being
bounced from one site to another. Now this is the nature of the CJ
site biz, but now that they are a dime dozen . it's brought the product
down and we can not expectanything else other than that. As far as
Layer with a Picture on it or a layer with text on itsaying that it leads
to a another free porn site;that is no different than a Thumb or a text link
which bounces the surfer to another site.remember, this is a cj site. I agree
110% thatdownload layers, java errorlayers and system crash layers are just
ridiculous and should simplynot be traded with.But to try and regulate the way
sites are built is not the way we should go.This is going to become a "Monarchy",
and every time someone comes up with a new way of increasingthe traffic ,it is
going to be put to some type of vote with the "board", is just not the way to
handle this. The possibilities are endless for cj webmasters to create something
that is clickable .This arena should be self governed by the individual site owner
to have some respect for his trade partners and not use deceptive layers
asforementioned above. eg "system error " If you feel someone is using something
abusive, JUST DONT TRADE WITH THEM or simply ask them to change it.
Obviously if you are abusing the sponcer by having a bunch ofwindows in front
of their site,this is not fair to them.
But remember these are high traffic sites ;the only way that they can
sustain traffic arethe use of "Consoles". The days of one console are over
by far(at most there were 10 cj sites atthat time ); no way we can sustain
these traffic levels with one console on enter. Remember these site have NO bookmark
traffic .the surfer comes in and is bounced around. No Experienced Surfer will
ever come back to a cj sites wether there are 0 , 1 , 2, or 3 consoles as soon
as he/she finds a Pic Post or TGP. So the way the sponcers make there
money from our sites is basically as such:the New Surferthat gets to our site
gets tired of looking for good porn and Joins a Paysite. We can handle this
the same way we handle CHILD PORN, PASSWORD(to protect sponcers),WAREZ SITES by
monitoring who we trade with
Anyway ,before everyone goes crazy with ideas of forming a governing
body,remember people have worked long and hard to build their sites;and to create
an "Oversight Government"is not the Solution. Common sense and responsible and
respectful trading are the best solutions.
thanks

Ron

03-07-2000, 03:41 PM

"Common sense and responsible and respectful trading are the best solutions."

Fucking EH to that!! I also agree with the statement that more Freash traffic is needed. It's the same old song but, HEY! it makes 100% sence.

With Cleaner CJ's and more freash traffic this shit would be a breeze!!

Also a word of note, those traders out there who track productivity. Put a topsite in your script or trade some hits with a TGP, i'd be my left nut in alot (not all) cases your "GOOD" cj trades will send more productive visitors.

Right now i have a topsite i trade with, some days it send's 130% productive surfers and other days it sends 38% productive hits.
Also if you have alot of unproductive trades, wouldn't it be true that you are also going to be trading unproductive hits with your partner's?

Just some food for though.
Ryan

Dje

03-07-2000, 05:55 PM

(sorry for the long post)
Hello all,

This is my first post on that matter and certainly the last. I firmly believe it is time for everyone to change their practice. I am not here to whine about the CJ as it is right now. Everyone knows things are bad and everyone knows it is time to act about it. This thread proves it. I am not in favor of an "Oversight Government", I do not want to dictate rules that refrain people from innovating their design to increase their outclick ratio. But we must absolutely understand that there are certain limits we got to understand.

First of all, we're in it for money. I doubt anyone in here is in this bussiness to watch porn or something like that http://adultwebmasterinfo.com/ubb/smile.gif Where does our money come from? From the sponsors of course. In order to make that money, we must be able to sell memberships to our sponsors. Forget about that idea of "No conversion rate" they all talk about. Our brokers must create signups in order to keep their clients, and to keep making us cash. Is the best way for us to generate signups is to just open up a dozen windows in front of the surfer's eyes each time he clicks on something? Or is it to make him go from one page to another without too much hassles until he gets to the conclusion he won't find porn anywhere, except on those nice paysites that keep popping on every new page. If those sites are the only pop ups he ever sees, you can be sure he will notice them a lot more and will be far more willing to sign up on one of them. This is simple marketing. Remember guys, circle jerk means circle jerking the surfer around in search for porn, not piss him off and make his browser crash every two seconds.

I see some people saying they're in this business for the short term buck. Should I say it disapoints me? I do not mean I wanna keep doing this for the next twenty years, but I do not want to overwatch every rule and make some more cash this month and then wonder why no sponsors want to pay me the month after. As long as we keep our site cleaner, we will be able to make this business. As long as we keep shit on our sites, we are getting nearer the end of this bizz. And I am not interested to see the end of it just because some people want to make a fast buck and disapear right after. Making an honest buck now and some good contact might help you in the future when you'll decide to create something else. Shitting on everyone won't.

So I believe it is time for every damn broker out there to have a discussion with every other broker. I know there is a lot of animosity between some of them right now, but in order to go in the good direction, they all have to understand they depend on each other. They really need to set a certain amount of rules that they will all apply in their program. This way, no broker gets a sudden advantage on the others. It will get them more productive traffic and I am sure they would be happy doing it. They really need to have a good discussion, forget about their differents and set some rules for everyone to follow. It could be quite simple: no more than one console on entry, no other console than theirs on exit, nothing that opens a new window when the surfer doesn't expect it. Quite simple hu? That would get all of our productivity to a height we've never seen. And that productivity would allow us to keep the same outclick ratio we have now. Only they have to make this move all together, or it won't work, with no exceptions. If they do, I can garantee you traffic will go up, and I am sure even payouts will go up, since our traffic will get more productive.

This is the only way CJ can be cleaned up from shit. It just relies on our brokers, and I hope they will act quick and in union. You should all forget about self-regulation, we've talked about it for a while and it never worked, and I doubt it ever will. No one wants to cut off trades because of a layer, but no one wants the layer except the one who's put it on his site. Obligations is what it takes now. This will piss off some people, but will please the vast majority.

With the hope that my message won't fall in deaf ears.

Good luck with your sites.

By the way, I am available to all brokers out there via ICQ if they want to discuss about how we could set those rules, and when. Or I would like to hear about them if they are not interested, this way we will know for sure it won't work. I hope to get news from you soon guys, i'm willing to be the contact between all of you if you don't want to discuss with another broker directly.

Have a nice evening!